Beginner shapening and maintainance

[Orthadox]

Greetings,

I've recently bought some AUS-8 folders and both of them has partial serrated edge. As a beginner, I wish to know on how to maintain and sharpen the edge.

Below are the queries that I will appreciate greatly on getting advice and assistance on:


Maintenance

1. Oiling of the blade when not in use to prevent rust?
Is that necessary and if yes, what type of oil will be preferred?
There are a few post stating pure mineral oil?

2. How to improve the opening of the folder?
Can I do so by slightly loosening of screws or apply lubricants?

Shapening

Issue 1
As I'm totally new at this, I do not know about the right way to sharpen.
I've read about the different grits serving different purpose and the angle(25-30 degrees) for the blade to be hone(if I used the right word?)

However, holding the sharpener at that angle will be another issue. How would I know if that is the right angle?

Hence, I thought of getting a guided angle sharpening system. There are a few brands mentioned, namely Lansky, DMT, Sharpmaker, Edgepro.

I would prefer diamond whetstones and was considering the DMT Deluxe Aligner Kit. Kindly recommend a system for me to kick start.

Issue 2
There was post stating on finishing the sharpening process with Chromium oxide. I would love to have a shiny smooth edge so may I know is it necessary? Or do we just finish it with the extra fine grit stones.

Thanks in advance for any comments and feedbacks

 

[Jason B.]

Get the DMT kit you will be very happy.

Chromium oxide is a abrasive compound usually put on a leather strop, stropping does do wonders for a edge and will make you knife many times sharper if done correctly. While chromium oxide is good stuff diamonds are always better http://www.classicshaving.com/catalog/item/522944/482854.htm

 

[Sep]

Maintenance:
1. AUS-8 is stainless steel, so it needs minimum oiling. You oil it mostly to keep the action smooth and add more rust protection in wet environments. It's also a good idea when you're about to store the knife for a long time. Mineral oil is preferred because it doesn't decompose (unlike cooking oils) and it's cheap. Certain grades of silicone oil is also an excellent choice, although I personally think it's not worth the extra price. I use it simply because I have some left over.

2. If the knife is brand new, don't mess with it until you have opened & closed it like 100 times. There is a "break in" period after which your knife will act smoother. If it still doesn't open as smooth as you like, then you can start playing with the pivot screw. Turn the screw as little as possible, probably 10 degrees at a time, because some knives have very little "sweet spot".

Sharpening:
1. If your mind is set on diamond stones, the name to beat is DMT. DMT Aligner is actually my preferred system, because it covers the widest range of grit and blade shape. Amazon has a good deal on DMT ADELUXE package, which includes coarse, fine, extra fine, and rod (for your serrated edge). If you're sick like me you'll also get the extra-extra coarse (for fast edge reprofiling), extra coarse, extra-extra fine (for hair splitting edge, literally) and the convex stone (for recurved blades). After you're done with the extra-extra fine stone, you just need to strop it on naked leather and get a hair whittling edge, which is one step beyond hair splitting edge.

2. DMT extra extra fine stone will give you a very keen and very smooth edge, but it won't give you a mirror finish. Unless your profession is whittling hair, a mirror polished edge is not going to make noticeable difference in cutting performance. In case you want a mirror polish anyway, you can use leather strop loaded with either cerium oxide, Lee Valley's green compound, or Amplex diamond paste. DMT also has its own diamond paste, but the smallest is 1 micron as opposed to the others at 0.5 micron. Amplex even has one at 0.25 micron, which is actually too sharp for non industrial purposes.

Other thoughts:
- For AUS-8 I recommend 40 degrees (20 degrees on each side) for practical edc purposes. If this is just for fun and you're not actually using the knife hard, you can go to 32 degrees on the DMT Aligner (16 degrees on each side). If you want to increase the durability a bit at this angle, read the sticky thread on top and do a micro bevel.

 

[Orthadox]

Get the DMT kit you will be very happy.

Chromium oxide is a abrasive compound usually put on a leather strop, stropping does do wonders for a edge and will make you knife many times sharper if done correctly. While chromium oxide is good stuff diamonds are always better http://www.classicshaving.com/catalog/item/522944/482854.htm

Firstly, thank you guys for your advice/comments.

Issue is, I won't know whether I'm doing it right if I'm using chromium oxide.
I'll assume that diamond stones are better than chromium oxides in your post?

How is the strop-ing done? Any links I can pick up from?

2. Turn the screw as little as possible, probably 10 degrees at a time, because some knives have very little "sweet spot".

What do you meant by 'sweet spots'? Apologies for a noobish question.

Sharpening:
1. If your mind is set on diamond stones

Not that I've set my mind but according to everyone around here, diamond stones seems to be a better choice and we won't have to 'reprofile' the stones unlike the other stones.

After you're done with the extra-extra fine stone, you just need to strop it on naked leather and get a hair whittling edge, which is one step beyond hair splitting edge.

Another query would be, what is the purpose of using leather to strop?
Any links where i can get the leather and learn the strop-ing?

In case you want a mirror polish anyway, you can use leather strop loaded with either cerium oxide, Lee Valley's green compound, or Amplex diamond paste. DMT also has its own diamond paste, but the smallest is 1 micron as opposed to the others at 0.5 micron. Amplex even has one at 0.25 micron, which is actually too sharp for non industrial purposes.

Appreciate the comments. It's very useful infomation. It actually across to my mind that it's a nice to have, for aesthetic purposes. Definitely not a must have.

Other thoughts:
- For AUS-8 I recommend 40 degrees (20 degrees on each side) for practical edc purposes. If this is just for fun and you're not actually using the knife hard, you can go to 32 degrees on the DMT Aligner (16 degrees on each side). If you want to increase the durability a bit at this angle, read the sticky thread on top and do a micro bevel.

It's definitely an EDC for me. However, no cutting unless necessary. What matters to me is the sharpness. The ability to cut with least effort.



Apologies for my English.. Please guide me along as I'm here with a common interest -> to learn..

 

[Sep]

• A sweet spot is the perfect balance point where it's neither too tight nor too loose. It's tight enough that there's no or very little blade play, while loose enough that you can still flick it open easily.
• Diamond stones are better, but they are more expensive than regular arkansas stones. If money is an issue, you can sharpen a AUS-8 knife with just arkansas bench stones. Before I got my DMT set, I learned sharpening the hard way using bench stones.
• Here's a youtube link to leather stropping: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=une4Zp75gWU Note: don't use jeweler's rouge because it's designed to cut softer jewelry metal like gold and silver. It might be slower to use against harder steels. Use the compounds I listed instead.
• If you put it at 40 degrees angle it will still be paper cutting sharp. It will slice tomatoes with ease, because most western kitchen knives are set at this angle. If you do a great job, it will split hair, but it's unlikely to whittle hair. I put my cheaper EDC beater knives at 40 degrees because I don't want to deal with big edge roll or chip when I happen to hit hard stuff.

 

[Jason B.]

Sep, good post but experience disagree's with some of your post. A mirror polished edge Does improve cutting performance, the edge is sharper and there is less friction on the edge when cutting because the mirror surface is very smooth. 0.25 micron diamond compound also makes a knife incredibly sharp though if not done properly it would seem like too much.

A good example of a .25 micron edge would be my M4 mule team. This knife gets silly sharp when taken down to 0.25 microns and the only down side I see is the time it takes to get their.

And for those that think a edge like this won't cut rope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHp4E22wuSM&feature=channel_page
http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll20/knifenut1013/?action=view&current=Picture394.flv

 

[richard j]

if you want another method for sharpening your knives check out this thread on paper wheels. it only takes a few minutes to get the same edge that can take several minutes or longer on stones. you can touch up serrations with the buffing wheel or touch up an edge in seconds with the paper buffing wheel. if your time is important and you want to spend it sharpenign knives then this system is worth checking into. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=578787

 

[Sep]

Sep, good post but experience disagree's with some of your post. A mirror polished edge Does improve cutting performance, the edge is sharper and there is less friction on the edge when cutting because the mirror surface is very smooth. 0.25 micron diamond compound also makes a knife incredibly sharp though if not done properly it would seem like too much.

A good example of a .25 micron edge would be my M4 mule team. This knife gets silly sharp when taken down to 0.25 microns and the only down side I see is the time it takes to get their.

And for those that think a edge like this won't cut rope.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHp4E22wuSM&feature=channel_page
http://s284.photobucket.com/albums/ll20/knifenut1013/?action=view&current=Picture394.flv

What I meant to say is for daily chores like cutting envelopes and cardboard and stuff, you can hardly tell the difference between a hair splitting edge and a hair whittling edge. I'm just not sure it's worth his $40 to get a strop and a tube of diamond paste for an EDC knife. That amount of money will get him 2 more DMT aligner stones, which I think is a better investment. I even recommended 40 degree angle because an overly thin AUS-8 will give you an unpleasant surprise when you cut cardboard and hit a staple or a nail.

I don't doubt that when it comes to whittling hair the strop and sub micron pastes will make a huge difference.

 

[dee bee]

Start with a sharpmaker and go from there. As far as oiling and what not, dont be overly concerned with it, i have never oiled any of my folders and none have ever shown signs of any corrosion, even in the pacific nw.

 

[Orthadox]

if you want another method for sharpening your knives check out this thread on paper wheels.

Thanks for the recommendation.
I did look into that before posting. The hold back for me will be getting the system and using it. In the descriptions and videos, it seemed to be freehand rather than guided. This post a problem as I won't know if it's the right angle?


To Knifenut1013 and Sep:
Perhaps it's my bad for not stating clearly. My EDC isn't for daily chores but mainly for SD. Hence, the ability to cut with least effort.

From what I've read, the leather strop with diamond paste is to have a finer edge?
While Chromium is for a finer mirror edge? Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
If I were to apply them on the leather strop, I will assume it's 'reusable'? Just apply coat again when the previous coat wears off?

Also, I notice that my folder has only one side sharpened. Unlike Sep's comments, whereby it's 20 degrees per side? Perhaps that design is to suit the purpose of the folder? In this case, do I need to re-profile it to a 20degrees each side blade? Maybe both of you can enlighten me this?

 

[richard j]

its not that hard to get the right angle once you practice how to sharpen with them. i suggest using a hack saw blade first since they are thin and cheaper than a knife. you might even find a used one somewhere which is even better. put some tape over a rag or paper towel on one end for a handle and practice. i can also call you and help talk you through any problems like i have many other members who bought them.

 

[Sep]

If it's chisel ground, the angle is typically sharp enough that you just need to follow it.

The mirror finish depends more on the size of the particle (1, 0.5, 0.25, or even 0.1 micron) rather than the material (Diamond or Cerium or Chromium). Compounds with particle size of 1 micron and lower will give you a mirror finish.

 

[Orthadox]

Thanks for the offer Richard. Perhaps you can provide me more information regarding the paper wheel? Information on difference between paper wheel and the DMT aligner set will be great.

In the paper wheel system, how do I sharpen serrated edges?

Sep: I don't get the line about chisel ground and the angle? Is it referring to my current folder's edge?

 

[Sep]

A knife that's only sharpened on one side is called chisel ground. A chisel is only sharpened on one side. The angle is the edge angle.

 

[SPXTrader]

This should help (or perhaps not!). From Wikipedia:

Typical grinds



Typical grinds of blades.

1 - Hollow ground—A common grind where a convex hollow is removed from both sides of the edge. It produces a very sharp edge but being so thin the edge is more prone to rolling or damage than other grinds. It is unsuited to heavy chopping or cutting hard materials. Straight razors are hollow ground. This grind is used extensively in mass produced knives.

2 - Flat ground—The blade tapers all the way from the spine to the edge from both sides. A lot of metal is removed from the blade and is thus more difficult to grind, one factor that limits its commercial use. It sacrifices edge durability in favor of more sharpness. The Finnish puukko is an example of a flat ground knife. A true, flat ground knife having only a single bevel is somewhat of a rarity.

3 - Sabre ground—Similar to a flat ground blade except that the bevel starts at about the middle of the blade, not the spine. It produces a more lasting edge at the expense of some cutting ability and is typical of kitchen knives.

4 - Chisel ground—As on a chisel, only one side is ground (often at an edge angle of about 20 – 30°) whilst the other remains flat all the way to the spine. As many Japanese culinary knives tend to be chisel ground they are often sharper than a typical double bevelled Western culinary knife. (A chisel grind has only a single edge angle. If a double bevel has the same edge angle as a chisel grind, it still has two edges and thus has twice the included angle.) Knives which are chisel ground come in left and right-handed varieties, depending upon which side is ground.

5 - Double bevel or compound bevel—A back bevel, similar to a sabre or flat grind, is put on the blade behind the edge bevel (the bevel which is the foremost cutting surface). This back bevel keeps the section of blade behind the edge thinner which improves cutting ability. Being less acute at the edge than a single bevel, sharpness is sacrificed for resilience: such a grind is much less prone to chipping or rolling than a single bevel blade. In practice, double bevels are common in a variety of edge angles and back bevel angles.

6 - Convex ground—Rather than tapering with straight lines to the edge, the taper is curved, though in the opposite manner to a hollow grind. Such a shape keeps a lot of metal behind the edge making for a stronger edge while still allowing a good degree of sharpness. This grind can be used on axes and is sometimes called an axe grind. As the angle of the taper is constantly changing this type of grind requires some degree of skill to reproduce on a flat stone. Convex blades usually need to be made from thicker stock than other blades.

Orthadox, from your description, you have #4 - a chisel grind on your knife.

 

[Orthadox]

Thanks Sep and SPX for the information.

A picture paints a thousand words. Seems like I've got the wrong folder for the wrong job.

Edit: or maybe not. correct me if I'm wrong but after some findings chisel edge are well-known for their sharpness?
However, the edge is on the left and hence is a disadvantage for a right-handed person like me.

Most online retailer don't seems to state if the knife is chisel or both sides of the blade is sharpened and pictures are too small or only shows one side so I'm unable to tell the difference. Judging from the information provided, I can only judge it from the shape of the blade