Hell yall, Ima newbie that has fell in love with the tradition and freedom of blademaking--Now, with that said,,I want to make my mom a chefs knife for a gift, I have made a few knives with success with 1095 blanks and used a forced patina (I use mustard--I know that sounds a bit weird-but it does help with rust)--is 1095 a decent steel for a chefs knife--If not, please recommend a simple sharp steel--I am aware of rust and my mom knows always to wipe itclean and dry it--heres aal the equipment I have--Im waiting on payday for an anvil---small volcano forge, anglegrinders, welding equipment, vise, hammer, willing and strong back---
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beginner steel for Chefs knife
- Thread starter timfish
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1095 is perfect for a chef's knife. Easy to touch up and re-sharpen, and takes a wickedly sharp edge in seconds. I'd recommend a full flat grind from relatively thin stock.
Do you do your own heat treating?
And there is nothing weird about mustard patinas, although a food knife in 1095 will develop its own patina fairly quickly. Gratuitous pics of just a few of my mustard stained knives:
Do you do your own heat treating?
And there is nothing weird about mustard patinas, although a food knife in 1095 will develop its own patina fairly quickly. Gratuitous pics of just a few of my mustard stained knives:
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Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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If you want carbon steel, use 26C3, W2, or 1095. For stainless, use Magnacut.
those look wonderful--I will be ordering bar stock soon--what thickness is best for the chefs knife please? I've been using 1/8" but I think that will be way too thick--how do I get the thin'ness' without the dredded warp in the heat treat?1095 is perfect for a chef's knife. Easy to touch up and re-sharpen, and takes a wickedly sharp edge in seconds. I'd recommend a full flat grind from relatively thin stock.
Do you do your own heat treating?
And there is nothing weird about mustard patinas, although a food knife in 1095 will develop its own patina fairly quickly. Gratuitous pics of just a few of my mustard stained knives:
Thanks again!!!
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1/8" is a good starting point. You can always thin it down a bit by grinding, or making it a distal taper to get more thinness towards the tip.
Heat treating is a topic unto itself. Lots of trial and error.
Heat treating is a topic unto itself. Lots of trial and error.
If you are heat treating in a simple forge choose a low alloy that heat treats easily. For low alloy 1095 is not the easiest to heat treat well but other steels are very forgiving with good results like 15N20, 8670, or 80CrV2. I have made a handful of kitchen knives out of reclaimed 15N20, cheap and easily hit 63 Rc.
Thinner stock is going to make a lighter weight slicing knife. 3/32 is my upper end for stock thickness and even then I grind a distal taper to tip. I have found most people who appreciate using kitchen knives love thin blades.
Thinner stock is going to make a lighter weight slicing knife. 3/32 is my upper end for stock thickness and even then I grind a distal taper to tip. I have found most people who appreciate using kitchen knives love thin blades.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
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I use .100" as the thickest kitchen knife stock. Most of my culinary blades are .060-.070" before I grind them down thinner.
Stuart Davenport Knives
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What Stacy said. I rarely use even 0.100". That's for hunters. Paring knives is 0.063" MAX, prefer 0.050". Chef's knives and utility is 0.063"-0.080".
If you're doing your own heat treatment with simple tools i.e. no temperature control or digital thermometer, I wouldn't use anything more complicated than 1084 or 1075. It would be well worth your while to invest in a fast quench oil and not use canola.
If you have a digital thermometer and you can hold a consistent temperature use any carbon steel, or even a stainless with a short soak time like 14C28N or 12C27 or AEBL.
If you're sending your blades out for heat treatment use any stainless or tool steel you want.
If you have a digital thermometer and you can hold a consistent temperature use any carbon steel, or even a stainless with a short soak time like 14C28N or 12C27 or AEBL.
If you're sending your blades out for heat treatment use any stainless or tool steel you want.
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It's not just rust but another phenomenon called pitting is .. the issue with 1095. but um. Kitchen Knife? I would recommend a PM steel if you're going to do it. If were sticking with ingot - 154CM is something you can't really go wrong with. I also don't see anything wrong with about 20 other alloys but
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
kinda hit the nail on the head with MagnaCut. It has the "stainlessness" of basically in between vanax and the 20Crs/LC200N, not exactly as good edge retention as vanax or the 20Crs (390/20cv/204p), although better than LC200N with better corrosion properties, and all around better than 154CM in any area besides perhaps pitting with its high Mo. (not sure about pitting which is kinda pertinent with kitchen knives imo). Is kinda correct here. You can get away with doing air hardening steels although i wouldn't recommend it lol. (Magnacut actually has pretty fuckin good hardenability[how fast it needs to be quenched]). The answer to this will sort of answer everything else for you I believe sir.
How are you heat treating this?
That's the million dollar question.
-Alan
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I really recommend against this. And as
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
mentioned, you want as thin as you can get basically without warping. How do you get that? buy it or surface grind it yourself. I highly advise against cryoing any high alloy PM steel that you would get in <.100", yes if cryo benefits, it benefits these alloys BUT you WILL get warping from the gamma iron and cementite that changes into martensite with sub-zero treatments. And no, stress relieving doesn't really work because in order for cryogenic treatment to be effective it ideally should be cooled from 150F to at least -150F within about a minute from quench. Normally I would say ignore that and just fix the warp - but on these stock thicknesses and hardness levels, that gets a little hairy in my opinion. Sorry for the double post. It's been a while since I have done these forum things.
Please forgive my ignorance--what is cryoing?I really recommend against this. And as
Sorry for the double post. It's been a while since I have done these forum things.
I was just gonna get maybe .125, flat grind it--heat treat it to a little past non magnetic and dunk it in quench oil--I know that narrow blades can warp during heat treat/quench--but I have created a sorta of a jig with 3" angle iron in a vise to hold it flat after quench--will that help you reckon??? Again, THANKS!!!
How do you keep that metal from warping during heat treat/quench? I have created a sorta of a jig with 3" angle iron in a vise to hold it flat after quench--will that help you reckon??? Again, THANKS!!!
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Sorry sub-zero temperatures that really only benefit high alloy steels. It's most certainly not necessary. Austenitize on the lower side for additional corrosion resistance. Best tips I can give mate! Any questions just ask I can't answer everything but
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Angle iron can work but I would suggest using a non oil cooling steel and quench plates of aluminum or copper. Steel works but you're going to lose hardenability. The quench plates will keep it flat for you during the quench. Just stick some c clamps on it and tighten it down. Not hydraulic level but. More than man force. Mechanical. If you are concluded that you are going to do oil hardening - quench until it's about 500F(6-7 seconds after red to black?ish) and then you have a few seconds to correct any warps pretty easily.
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From page 241 of Knife Engineering by Larrin Thomas, "In general, a higher austenitizeing temperature means more chromium carbide is dissolved leading to higher chromium in solution and therefore better corrosion resistance."
This is of course is only true if the steel has chromium carbides which many of the low alloy do not.
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For kitchen knives I use .082 and .062 AEB-L stainless. It's easy to work with, easy to sharpen and holds a decent edge.
I heat treat myself and AEB-L has given me no problems. I don't cryo because I didn't see a vast improvement for the time and money it takes.
I cool my blades with 1" thick aluminum plates that are 18" x 8". If doing multiple blades, I also blow compressed air on them to help with cooling.
I temper at 300 for two cycles of two hours each with a cooling to room temp. between.
I've yet to have a blade test lower that 61HRC when complete.
I heat treat myself and AEB-L has given me no problems. I don't cryo because I didn't see a vast improvement for the time and money it takes.
I cool my blades with 1" thick aluminum plates that are 18" x 8". If doing multiple blades, I also blow compressed air on them to help with cooling.
I temper at 300 for two cycles of two hours each with a cooling to room temp. between.
I've yet to have a blade test lower that 61HRC when complete.
Page 289 of Larrin's book he has a chapter called Retained Austenite Stabilization, talking of T1 steel, "When using liquid nitrogen [-310 F] there can be a delay of approximately an hour without a significant increase in RA."
Stuart Davenport Knives
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Yeah uh......where to start. Just because a blade is cryo quenched does not mean it WILL warp. Absolutely not true. Ask me how I know.
Yes, stress relieving does work. 1200°F for 2 hours is an excellent stress relieving cycle.
Sub zero treatments are not just for the high alloy steels. They help reduce RA even in lower alloy steels, especially those with very high carbon %.
And as far as corrosion resistance, the higher the austenitizing temp the better, and the lower the tempering temp the better.
Yes, stress relieving does work. 1200°F for 2 hours is an excellent stress relieving cycle.
Sub zero treatments are not just for the high alloy steels. They help reduce RA even in lower alloy steels, especially those with very high carbon %.
And as far as corrosion resistance, the higher the austenitizing temp the better, and the lower the tempering temp the better.
It often gets asked if you can heat treat stainless in a forge. For most people the answer is no, not with any reliability. But the real question is can you the individual maintain a stable temperature in your forge. If you can maintain 1080°C in your forge for 30 minutes you can heat treat anything just as well as you can in an electric furnace that's holding 1080°C for 30 minutes.Is kinda correct here. You can get away with doing air hardening steels although i wouldn't recommend it lol. (Magnacut actually has pretty fuckin good hardenability[how fast it needs to be quenched]). The answer to this will sort of answer everything else for you I believe sir.