Beginner steel

C

Chad Culverhouse

Joined
Feb 14, 2020
Messages
17
As I'm just starting out I've been reading and watching a good bit trying to educate myself. I've made a few out of scrap steel, machetes and saw blades, just to cut my teeth without much cost.

I'm going to be doing stock removal for now and I've built a small oven (paint can and plaster of Paris) because I want to learn to heat treat as well.

Of course my question is, what steel should i start with?

(sorry if this has been discussed before)
 
Welcome! I would recommend 1095. I had really good luck with 5160 as well although most don't recommend that as starter steel. 1080 is another one that is supposed to be pretty forgiving I have actually never used it so I really can't comment.

I started off heat treating with just a torch and a household oven. You wont get as good of results as a professional job but it will make a serviceable blade.

If you ever get stuck use the search bar! You can almost always find an answer. Also check out the stick threads in the maker section. There is a ton of good information in it to.

Good luck!
 
Any of the simple carbon steels are easy to work with. 1075, 1080, 1084, 1095 are great. I've know 52100 and 1095 can be difficult to get a really good ht on (the higher carbon content requires a longer soak at temp to get all the carbon into solution. This is difficult to do properly in a basic forge/oven without overheating the steel), but if you're sending them out for ht they have the best performance of the bunch. For stainless, you'll have to outsource ht, but cpm154 and aebl are both easy to work and can have great performance.
 
Chad, we were all new once, no worries.

I recommend the 8670 from Carbon steel from @alphaknifesupply
It is the most affordable and best suited for rudimentary heat treat and a good performing steel when heat treated and processed properly.

It has very good durability and can be thought of as a stronger 5160 with slightly more edge holding and not really any loss in toughness to 5160.

You should avoid 1095, O1, 52100 right now.

They require more tempeture control to avoid making chippy.

Those steel have plus 0.80% Carbon and will not be ideal without proper temperature control since its too easy to put to much carbon in solution when austenitizing and make more brittle plate martensite vs more less brittle lath martensite which is desired.

8670 has 0.72 % Carbon so you'll not have to worry as much about making too much plate martensite if you put too much in solution, just grain growth or not fully austenitizing trying to avoid grain growth. 8670 also has other elements that help with the hardenability ( quench rate, not hardness) so you can achieve decent hardness with rudimentary quenchants like canola oil at 130 degrees F. Also the alloy additions will help keep more desirable constituents in the grain boundaries for a better matrix.

All steels will benefit from more temperature control which among many things will guarantee that you fully austenitize and prevent grain growth.

However, 8670 will be the most forgiving, affordable and available and is where you should start right now.
It will also offer you more as you grow as a maker.
Good luck.






Chad Culverhouse said:
As I'm just starting out I've been reading and watching a good bit trying to educate myself. I've made a few out of scrap steel, machetes and saw blades, just to cut my teeth without much cost.

I'm going to be doing stock removal for now and I've built a small oven (paint can and plaster of Paris) because I want to learn to heat treat as well.

Of course my question is, what steel should i start with?

(sorry if this has been discussed before)
Click to expand...
 
DeadboxHero said:
Chad, we were all new once, no worries.

I recommend the 8670 from Carbon steel from @alphaknifesupply
It is the most affordable and best suited for rudimentary heat treat and a good performing steel when heat treated and processed properly.

It has very good durability and can be thought of as a stronger 5160 with slightly more edge holding and not really any loss in toughness to 5160.

You should avoid 1095, O1, 52100 right now.

They require more tempeture control to avoid making chippy.

Those steel have plus 0.80% Carbon and will not be ideal without proper temperature control since its too easy to put to much carbon in solution when austenitizing and make more brittle plate martensite vs more less brittle lath martensite which is desired.

8670 has 0.72 % Carbon so you'll not have to worry as much about making too much plate martensite if you put too much in solution, just grain growth or not fully austenitizing trying to avoid grain growth. 8670 also has other elements that help with the hardenability ( quench rate, not hardness) so you can achieve decent hardness with rudimentary quenchants like canola oil at 130 degrees F. Also the alloy additions will help keep more desirable constituents in the grain boundaries for a better matrix.

All steels will benefit from more temperature control which among many things will guarantee that you fully austenitize and prevent grain growth.

However, 8670 will be the most forgiving, affordable and available and is where you should start right now.
It will also offer you more as you grow as a maker.
Good luck.
Click to expand...


What he said but include 1084 in the recommendation.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Chad, we were all new once, no worries.

I recommend the 8670 from Carbon steel from @alphaknifesupply
It is the most affordable and best suited for rudimentary heat treat and a good performing steel when heat treated and processed properly.

It has very good durability and can be thought of as a stronger 5160 with slightly more edge holding and not really any loss in toughness to 5160.

You should avoid 1095, O1, 52100 right now.

They require more tempeture control to avoid making chippy.

Those steel have plus 0.80% Carbon and will not be ideal without proper temperature control since its too easy to put to much carbon in solution when austenitizing and make more brittle plate martensite vs more less brittle lath martensite which is desired.

8670 has 0.72 % Carbon so you'll not have to worry as much about making too much plate martensite if you put too much in solution, just grain growth or not fully austenitizing trying to avoid grain growth. 8670 also has other elements that help with the hardenability ( quench rate, not hardness) so you can achieve decent hardness with rudimentary quenchants like canola oil at 130 degrees F. Also the alloy additions will help keep more desirable constituents in the grain boundaries for a better matrix.

All steels will benefit from more temperature control which among many things will guarantee that you fully austenitize and prevent grain growth.

However, 8670 will be the most forgiving, affordable and available and is where you should start right now.
It will also offer you more as you grow as a maker.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
You might as well have replied in Greek! Not every newbie maker is a wannabe metallurgist. He just wants something he can play with to gain experience and doing a "chippy" HT with readily available cheap steel is part of the learning curve IMO. :rolleyes:
 
Chad Culverhouse said:
As I'm just starting out I've been reading and watching a good bit trying to educate myself. I've made a few out of scrap steel, machetes and saw blades, just to cut my teeth without much cost.

I'm going to be doing stock removal for now and I've built a small oven (paint can and plaster of Paris) because I want to learn to heat treat as well.

Of course my question is, what steel should i start with?

(sorry if this has been discussed before)
Click to expand...
Welcome to the Boards Chad. Im in the same boat as you having recently made KSO's (Knife shaped objects) throwing knives with my Paint can forge and DIY Bench sander (Belt sander in a vice) and having just completed a Bushcraft knife and sheath I am more interested than ever in finding the right steel to use in my low cost low tech projects. Don't be afraid to ask questions and be sure to surf the search bar, so much great information here and top notch people who are more than happy to give you tips. You should DL Imgur so you can share some pics of your work with us here because we love pics and as they say a picture tells a thousands words. Good luck, Have fun, and challenge yourself :cool::thumbsup:
 
8670 is cheaper tougher and works better with "get it hot and stick in wet stuff" heat treatment.

Not everyone needs information watered down either.:rolleyes:



danbot said:
You might as well have replied in Greek! Not every newbie maker is a wannabe metallurgist. He just wants something he can play with to gain experience and doing a "chippy" HT with readily available cheap steel is part of the learning curve IMO. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
DeadboxHero said:
8670 is cheaper tougher and works better with "get it hot and stick in wet stuff" heat treatment.

Not everyone needs information watered down either.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
It is a good recommendation.
I just think that beginners aren't always looking to be overwhelmed with technical information straight out of the gate that can actually be intimidating, or cause them to feel that this is all over their head.
 
Well, everyone is different, I was new once and I was frustrated when I was getting started that no one was sharing a glimpse of how things work or "why"

Thought I'd give back a little.


danbot said:
It is a good recommendation.
I just think that beginners aren't always looking to be overwhelmed with technical information straight out of the gate that can actually be intimidating, or cause them to feel that this is all over their head.
Click to expand...
 
DeadboxHero said:
Chad, we were all new once, no worries.

I recommend the 8670 from Carbon steel from @alphaknifesupply
It is the most affordable and best suited for rudimentary heat treat and a good performing steel when heat treated and processed properly.

It has very good durability and can be thought of as a stronger 5160 with slightly more edge holding and not really any loss in toughness to 5160.

You should avoid 1095, O1, 52100 right now.

They require more tempeture control to avoid making chippy.

Those steel have plus 0.80% Carbon and will not be ideal without proper temperature control since its too easy to put to much carbon in solution when austenitizing and make more brittle plate martensite vs more less brittle lath martensite which is desired.

8670 has 0.72 % Carbon so you'll not have to worry as much about making too much plate martensite if you put too much in solution, just grain growth or not fully austenitizing trying to avoid grain growth. 8670 also has other elements that help with the hardenability ( quench rate, not hardness) so you can achieve decent hardness with rudimentary quenchants like canola oil at 130 degrees F. Also the alloy additions will help keep more desirable constituents in the grain boundaries for a better matrix.

All steels will benefit from more temperature control which among many things will guarantee that you fully austenitize and prevent grain growth.

However, 8670 will be the most forgiving, affordable and available and is where you should start right now.
It will also offer you more as you grow as a maker.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Damn you beat me too it!

Another vote for 8670 from me!
Great stuff.

Easy to heat treat, easy to grind.
Takes an edge easily. And has great toughness. Edge holding is pretty good too once you get the HT dialed in. And its cheap!!!
 
I think you guys have sold me on the 8670. So roughly, take it up to 1500 degrees and then quickly quench in canola oil. Heat treat at 400 degrees for 2 hours and let it slowly cool to room temp, twice?
 
I think you don't have to let it come to room temp slowly after tempering. I put mine in a water bucket.

I've read that you should preheat your canola oil to 120-130F or so before quenching, so that's what I do.
 
On Alpha Knife Supply's site, they list some steel as HRPA. Hot Rolled Pickled Annealed? And is there a disadvantage to HRPA versus the more expensive flat ground?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top