Beginning blacksmithing

Grim/Don

Grim/Don

Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
1,221
My son and I got the bug bad to try some blacksmithing after visiting the local Ren Fest last weekend. Got on the net and found some ideas and got started.

Found a car rim at the local tire shop (who let me have it for free!) Got some pipe for the blower at Home Depot. Used a rusted fan grill for the bottom of the rim to keep the charcoal from falling through. Got some charcoal at walmart. Already had a length of railroad iron to use as an anvil (cut up & stacked a railroad tie to get it to the right height)

Put the rim up on a couple cinder blocks to get it near the right height.Rigged up the pipe for the blower. Didn't want to use my wife hair-dryer (and didn't want to buy one), so I got my Shop Vac out! Layered the rim with newspaper, small sticks and the charcoal. (I wanted 'real' coal, but didn't have the funds for it; besides it took me forever to find a source in KC that had some for sale).

Lit it up and put a piece of rebar in and added a smaller rod that my son wanted to pound on. Had it going for 20+ minutes, and wasn't seeing a color change...:confused: Until... I walked in to the shed with it! We had red metal!! :D (since we were outside in the direct sunlight, we couldn't see the color change (until the sun moved behind a tree)). We used the smaller rod to make a pushrod for the coals and to experiment on. The peice of rebar I pounded flat, then gripped with Visegrips to pound a twist into. Found a second piece of rebar the same diameter, and did the same thing. Then, I took the peices inside to the drill press and drilled a hole in each, right past the twists. Got a small piece of rod for a cross pin... BINGO! I'd make a pair of tongs!! They're nothing special AT ALL, but they're mine. I was quite happy my son was interested, because he was pounding while I was holding (carefully!)

I'd found on the net that it was suggested as a first project because their not too had to make, and, after you have them, you can use them for smaller pieces of metal.

Only had one small mishap... I went to examine the pushrod after my son had stirred the coals... My thumb and 1st two fingers are kinda tingly now, but not to bad. I quickly stuck them in the quench-water (my son loved the sizzle when hot metal hit the water)

Here's a link to my Yahoo photos with some pics I took today;

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/grim_don/detail?.dir=c84b&.dnm=2f72re2.jpg

(note to photo-choppers... my son is off limits)

Soooo... Any advice for a newbie who's finally fulfilling a life-long dream? We'd planned to hit the local library, but it was closed the one night and we were busy the other nights.
 
The 1st 4 pics are my son pounding away. The 5th & 6th are metal in the forge (we moved the empty gas cans shortly after I took the pic). Pic 7 is the 'apprentice' taking a break! :D Pic 8 is me with my new tongs. Pic 9 is the tongs and the push rod on the sidewalk.
 
Nice job... I watched a blacksmith demo one day for about two hours and was amazed at what he could make out of round bar.

Very cool project to involve your son in. Keep at it!
 
Nice work :)
I need to make some tongs myself. I've been messing around with forging for awhile, hammering out a few knives. I normally do stock removal, but I don't ever want to be without a forge again! Even if I didn't make knives, I can't beleive how many times I fire the forge up to bend a peice of metal for a welding project or something.
You should check into the shoptalk section here, you've got about all you need to make a blade or two now.
Also take a look at www.elliscustomknifeworks.com. Darren put up a forge gallery with a bunch of home built propane forges with descriptions and pictures. There's alot of good info there, and if you need any more materials, or get interested in building a gas burning forge, Darren is a member here and a great guy to deal with.
I'm working on my 2nd propane forge right now, and will be ordering soem refractory from Darren soon.


Oh....one more thing. Its great that you and especially your son are interested in this. Hopefully this is something you guys can do together for a long time to come. And so you need to take the steps to make sure that you both are able to do this stuff for a long time. Get your son some safety glassed and start developing safe habits from the start.
Its a little bit safer when you work as a team and have one person striking and one person holding, but eventually you are going to have a hot peice of metal take flight. Its inevitable. Closed toed shoes are a must, so no hot steel lands on your feet, and safety glasses are also a must.
 
I think the forgers can tell you how to forge tongs as easy as they can tell you how to forge a knife. :)
moving-van.jpg
 
Looks like you two are off to a fine start. I think a couple of the first books I got were The Complete Modern Blacksmith by Alexander G. Weygers and The Art of Blacksmithing by Alex W. Bealer. They are classics if a bit dated and iirc some of Weygers stuff looks like it could use some safety review before building. http://www.lindsaybks.com/ is a haven of mostly old reprints with some good backyard/garage how to for good measure. There is a lot of overlap in blacksmithing books, so you don’t need to buy a bunch to get most of the basics.

http://www.anvilfire.com/ is a good web based place to look at. You may also want to consider going with a propane forge, much less mess and fuss and if I can build one anyone can, my friend Ron has a ton of info on his site http://ronreil.abana.org/

As Matt said hot metal will get out of hand, also at some point you will have hot scale coming of what you are working on get, both of you safety glasses.

Todd
 
Matt Shade said:
Nice work :)
I need to make some tongs myself. I've been messing around with forging for awhile, hammering out a few knives. I normally do stock removal, but I don't ever want to be without a forge again! Even if I didn't make knives, I can't beleive how many times I fire the forge up to bend a peice of metal for a welding project or something.
You should check into the shoptalk section here, you've got about all you need to make a blade or two now.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I searched there first for a while, which lead to the page that recommended Tongs as a first project. Yep, blades are on the agenda (my son announced he wanted to make a sword before we'd got the tire rim. I told him that we needed to work up to something like that...) We took a road trip tonight and hiked along some railroad tracks and picked up a bunch of "raw materials" for next weekend.

Matt Shade said:
Oh....one more thing. Its great that you and especially your son are interested in this. Hopefully this is something you guys can do together for a long time to come. And so you need to take the steps to make sure that you both are able to do this stuff for a long time. Get your son some safety glasses and start developing safe habits from the start.
Its a little bit safer when you work as a team and have one person striking and one person holding, but eventually you are going to have a hot peice of metal take flight. Its inevitable. Closed toed shoes are a must, so no hot steel lands on your feet, and safety glasses are also a must.
Click to expand...

I'd thought about that. He's very good about putting safety glasses on when he's got the bb gun out, or if we're hammering a bunch of nails. I wear them most all the time when I'm working, or at least have my sunglasses on. Thanks for the reminder though, we will be adopting that policy from now on. We both got hit by small, flying sparks/ash, which smarted a bit. I've already told my son tonight what you've said, and he's adopted it like the word of god! :eek::D He also knows to NEVER wear sandels/flip-flops around me.
We did a bunch of me hold/him pound (and he never got me!:D ) but I was a bit nervous with it. We've got a regular size ballpean hammer that's 'his' and I mostly use the 2 pound sledge.
 
Cougar Allen said:
I think the forgers can tell you how to forge tongs as easy as they can tell you how to forge a knife. :)
Click to expand...

Yikes! :eek: I didn't want to post among the pro's first. I'd only lurked here once or twice, and wasn't prepared.

Please be gentle with the newbie!

So... Since I'm here... Some newbie questions...

Should I have a hood cover for my forge? I was thinking something along the lines of a Barbque grill top, to keep (more of) the heat in, to help things heat up faster.

Does coal last longer than charcoal? I didn't have the money for actual coal (I found a place that sells bitiminous and anthracite... is one preferred over the other?)

Does the stock metal that you can get at Home Depot work okay? We picked up some railroad spikes tonight, I've always heard those were okay for messing with.

Quenching... Only quench in water? I read a book where guy used water, oil and vinegar to quench (Perrin in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series).

A buddy of mine who's done some silversmithing said something about slow cooling and quick cooling (quenching) with regard to strength and workability of the metal. (I was hoping this would be in a book at the library...) I can't remember exactly what he said, can someone clarify this for me?

Should I line my car tire rim with fire brick? I found some locally, but it turned out to be more expensive than I'd planned on. (I thought the girl said 29 cents, when we went back to check prices; today, they finally had it priced... at $2.29 a brick! :eek:

Is it okay to throw wood pieces in my fire?

Does a shop vac put out too much air? I was planning on picking up a cheap hair dryer, but didn't want to make another trip to walmart.

On the bottom of my pipe for the blower... Should I put a cap on that? (the "T" pipe, with the straight shaft, t-union in the middle, blower slid over the end of the side pipe) I'd left the bottom open for the ash to fall through (and the blower blew it everywhere)

Should I move inside my shed? I'd thought hard about doing that, and it's a viable option. I'll have to cut a hole in the top (metal shed), but then I won't be working in sunlight(so I can see the colors of the metal better)

Again, my apologies for the newbie questions. I'd read a bunch of pages here and folowed a bunch of links in the stickie above. I was hoping to make it to the library tomorrow night to check out thier selection.

Thanks in advance!
 
I'm sure you'll get answers to all of your questions here in time. But one thing occured to me that might not, but is very important as you experiment around with different stuff. DO NOT heat up a pipe or similar round tube-type thing and stick it in the water without giving consideration to where the resulting blast of hot water and steam shooting out of the pipe end are going to go.

Learned this one the hard way once.:)
 
Hi Don,
That's the same way i got into smithing:) I have been working at my local ren fair since i was a kid.last year i hung around with the blacksmith a bit too much and i "caught the fever" so to say.Dont be shy around shop talk these guys are always polite when it comes to an honest question.Most newbie questions have been answered a few times,try using the search first.Have fun with it and be safe,blacksmithing is a great hobby!Here are some good links for a beginning smith too.

http://ronreil.abana.org/
http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/index.htm
http://www.ironringforge.com/
 
An excellent start! You should check out the ABANA website and see if there is an affiliate chapter in your area. If you can find some local blacksmiths I guarantee you'll be meeting some of the best folks around. I've never met a person through my blacksmith guild who isn't a great guy (or gal!). One of the best books for the beginning blacksmith hands down is Randy McDaniel's Blacksmithing Primer. Randy is a fantastic guy and put an increadible amount of detail and thought into this book, and it shows.

I'm at work now so don't have time to address your list of questions above, but I'll try to get back and give you some more info this evening.

Keep the anvil a' ringing!

-d
 
Welcome. A trip to the local Library will usually turn up several books on blacksmithing. Also ,check for a local blacksmiths guild or club.The ABANA is a great source for info and sources for supplies.It is hard to do any type of metal work on a shoestring budget,but blacksmithing is as close as you can get. The books can teach you how to make charcoal (the real stuff,not the bag stuff) from scrap wood. Almost any steel and iron scrap can be heated and shaped with a simple ball pein hammer and a rail road anvil.
Some answers to your questions:
1)Yes the metal at Home Depot,etc., is fine.Other good items are old tire irons,rebar,old wagon wheel rims. A visit to a machine shop or welding shop can turn up a pile of good scrap,sometimes for free. A scrap/salvage yard often sells steel scrap for around 30cents a pound. Do not use galvanized pipe or steel.
2)For iron and mild steel water is fine to quench.Oil is best for most steel with more carbon.
3)A hood over a forge is to carry away the fumes. Don't cover up a forge,it can create deadly gasses!
4)Charcoal and metallurgical coal are the best fuels for a pan forge.Wood will work,but burns fast.For just playing around,any solid fuel will be OK.I used to walk the RR tracks and pick up my coal for free.
5)The shop vac is too much air.A simple small squirrel cage blower is all you need.All you want is a steady flow of air.
6)Once the forge is made and the air is right,you will have no problem seeing that the metal is hot enough.
7)Keep the forge outside until you understand more about the fuel/air mix in forges. Carbon Monoxide Poisoning is not a fun way to learn.A simple plywood or tin "roof" over your forging area (to make some shade) will be a better solution for now.
8)Read up on making a brake drum forge.You are getting the idea,but lack some understanding of how things work. The books from the library will help a lot here.The internet is full of plans ,too.

Most of all have fun and keep it safe.
Stacy
 
Here is a link to a page with my favorite linkes to blacksmithing link.
http://www.geocities.com/son_of_bluegrass/smithinglinks.html

Definatly look up ABANA for a local chapter.

There is a big difference in charcoal. The formed briquettes common today really aren't suitable to forge with. You want hardwood (chunk, natural) charcoal. Any untreated, solid wood can be made into suitable charcoal. Coal is a different animal altogether.

If you are interested in making knives, I suggust a beginning metalluragy book, "Metalluragy Theory and Practice" By Dell K Allen is a good one.

Astragal press has a number of blacksmithing and metal working books as well as Lindsay books. Also check out used book stores.

Sometimes tools/raw materials can be found at estate sales/ garage sales/ pawn shops.

ron
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you! Exactly what I was looking for.

Went to the library tonight, all their books were at other locations (I reserved 4 of them). They did have a video, but we were too busy tonight to watch it. (and I don't dare watch it without my son!)



bladsmth said:
Welcome. A trip to the local Library will usually turn up several books on blacksmithing. Also ,check for a local blacksmiths guild or club.The ABANA is a great source for info and sources for supplies.It is hard to do any type of metal work on a shoestring budget,but blacksmithing is as close as you can get. The books can teach you how to make charcoal (the real stuff,not the bag stuff) from scrap wood. Almost any steel and iron scrap can be heated and shaped with a simple ball pein hammer and a rail road anvil.
Some answers to your questions:
1)Yes the metal at Home Depot,etc., is fine.Other good items are old tire irons,rebar,old wagon wheel rims. A visit to a machine shop or welding shop can turn up a pile of good scrap,sometimes for free. A scrap/salvage yard often sells steel scrap for around 30cents a pound. Do not use galvanized pipe or steel.
2)For iron and mild steel water is fine to quench.Oil is best for most steel with more carbon.
3)A hood over a forge is to carry away the fumes. Don't cover up a forge,it can create deadly gasses!
4)Charcoal and metallurgical coal are the best fuels for a pan forge.Wood will work,but burns fast.For just playing around,any solid fuel will be OK.I used to walk the RR tracks and pick up my coal for free.
5)The shop vac is too much air.A simple small squirrel cage blower is all you need.All you want is a steady flow of air.
6)Once the forge is made and the air is right,you will have no problem seeing that the metal is hot enough.
7)Keep the forge outside until you understand more about the fuel/air mix in forges. Carbon Monoxide Poisoning is not a fun way to learn.A simple plywood or tin "roof" over your forging area (to make some shade) will be a better solution for now.
8)Read up on making a brake drum forge.You are getting the idea,but lack some understanding of how things work. The books from the library will help a lot here.The internet is full of plans ,too.

Most of all have fun and keep it safe.
Stacy
Click to expand...
 
Wow, Ripper, those are all great links! This is the links page I found that originally led me to the forum: http://www.knivesby.com/knifemaking.html . A lot of great articles there, too. I also highly recommend "$50 Knife Shop" by Wayne Goddard. (Although he should call it "$70 Knife Shop" 'cuz the book costs $20) I just read through it the first time and will soon sit down and actually study it. It's totally geared towards someone with a minimum of equipment and space to work in.
 
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