Belt Sander Out of My League?

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Apr 17, 2009
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Saw a review by cutlerylover on the belt sander he got for sharpening
from Harbor Freight. I have a local harbor freight near by. The set
up would cost me around 50-60 bucks. A lansky system or similar system
(shapemaker or the like) is around that price, maybe a little less.

Is it better for me to get a belt sander? I don't have much experience
sharpening and my needs are much less than most people. I mainly collect
and do some light duty EDC, but the number of blades I have that need
sharpening keep increasing.

What would you guys recommend?
 
That's kind of what I thought. Plus the knives I'm sharpening are not cheapies.
They're some of my favorite, would hate to ruin it in a couple of seconds with
a belt sander...
 
If you can't even sharpen freehand with stones, then don't even touch powered sharpeners.
 
Belt sanders are useful tools but they aren't particularly portable and they have to be plugged in to work. Get a Sharpmaker, Lansky or EdgePro first, then get a sander if you still want one.
 
Keep in mind, belt sanders require... belts! Unless you're going to use it a lot, it's probably not worth the additional expense and learning curve. I doubt you're going to wear out a lansky or sharpmaker anytime soon if you're just doing your own knives.

It's also worth remembering that in your price range, you're near the top of the line in the lansky type sharpeners... and at the dead bottom when it comes to belt sanders. You know what you get when you buy the cheapest "anything" available, right?
 
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How narrow is the range of knives that you have to sharpen? Are all of your knives going to be short? Are all of your knives only going to need just a little bit of touch up? Are any of your knives serrated or recurved? Are any of your knives made of sophisticated alloys with hard carbides?

People who point you at a complicated system with clamps and guides tend to reduce your options. If you get a precision system for pocket knives it will be a pain the A for 10-inch blade chef's knives. Some nice simple ceramic rod systems take almost forever if you have to sharpen an extremely dull blade.

So ya gotta ask yourself, "Do you feel lucky?" ...No that's the wrong question. The real question is "What do I want to be able to sharpen?" You will generally need solutions to two problems. How do I sharpen a really dull blade (remove a comparatively large amount of material efficiently) and how do I put on a final fine edge?

You can easily cover a lot of knife sizes and degrees of dullness if you decide that you are going to stick to non-serrated knives that are not significantly recurved. For this you could use a large two-sided bench hone and learn a lot about the process of sharpening. You could sharpen a 12-inch monster bowie knife or a traditional pen knife blade. http://www.nortonstonesstore.com/Store/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=18
With a stone like this you can work on a gentle recurve if you tip the blade slightly and hone partially on the edge to the stone. It isn't your best choice for exotic alloy that are extremely hard to hone.

If you want to work on the same straight blades, but thicker or made of tougher alloys you might want the belt sander or a coarse diamond hone. The belt sander is cheaper, quicker, and allows you to use a variety of grit sizes. For that variety of knife I would get a belt sander and supplement it with something like an ultra-fine diamond hone (at least 6" long). http://theconsumerlink.com/product_detail.asp?BID=DiamondMachiningTechnology&T1=TCL+D6E&navStart=0&.

If you go down the path of unrighteousness (serrations) life is tougher. You need a hone that gets into the serration and yet is reasonably efficient. I would look at a Spyderco Sharpmaker. This will work on blade of moderate dullness. If you really mess up serrations it is hard to fix them by hand so maybe you don't really need a heavy duty hone. I have a rat-tailed diamond file, but it still tends to distort serrations with excessive use.

A mixture of straight blades and serrated blades forces you to start accumulating a large number of tools. This is a slippery slope and I am sitting here at the bottom of it with dozens of sharpening tools piled around me.
 
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Jeff Clark brings up some important questions! Depending on how you answer some of those questions will give you a better idea of what tool might suit your needs the best. I love the Spyderco Sharpmaker personally and think it is an excellent first time purchase for sharpening needs. You could suppliment it with diamond rods, or clip some different grits of sandpaper to the rods for a larger range of grits. Hope you are happy with the direction you decide to pursue.
 
Wow, didn't really think of all that! Well for further details I'm sharpening all small to
medium size folders/fix blades, nothing over 5 inches though. Most are regular curved
blades.

Steels are 440c, 154CM, S30V, Cr830 something or another, I think that's it. No
serrated blades for now.

I'm now leaning toward the Lansky Deluxe Turn Box with 2 medium and 2 fine rods.
Heard it's good for beginners and it's cheap. A little over 20 bucks shipped.
 
For just a few knives with plain edges, with little risk of damaging them, I'd recommend a Norton Course/Fine double sided stone. They are about $20, and will last for years if you just sharpen your knives, not everyone elses. I sat down one night and sharpened every knife in the kitchen block in 2 hours by hand with just that stone. There were 8 knives in the block, from a 3" blade paring knife to an 8" blade chefs knife. If you have standard blade steels you can get a hair whittling edge off the fine side of the Norton, with some practice. The more expensive/exotic blade steels take more effort, but can be done on the Norton as well, at least M2 can. I havent tried the CPM steels.

A belt sander is not out of your league, but you will most likely ruin at least one knife when learning to use it. I can do the same kitchen block in less than 1/2 hour with a belt sander, but the cost is more than twice as much, and there is a good chance I'll scratch something. Belt sanders can also take off a lot of steel if you're not very careful. I've retired several blades since I started using it. However, I love the polished edge I get with a 1x30 leather belt and honing compound, and its unbeatable if you have machetes or larger brush blades.

If you have a way to cut accurate angles in wood, you can make some of the jigs seen here that hold the stone at the desired angle while you only have to hold the knife either horizontal or vertical. I prefer vertical, as I can hold the knife more consistently than I can horizontally. Others prefer horizontal. I have a 4x4 cut at 17 degrees, screwed to a 1x6 base that holds it up vertically. Avoid knotty wood, as it will prevent the stone from being flat against the holder. The angle is not really that important, but I recommend 25 degrees or less. I lean my stones against it so they are at 17 degrees from vertical and hold the knife vertically like cutting bread on a board, and sharpen the edge on the coarse side. I alternate 20 strokes per side of the edge. When I feel a burr, I switch to the fine side of the stone and move the stone out a little from the 4x4, so its maybe 20 to 22 degrees from vertical. I drew a line on the base about 1 inch away from the 4x4 and use that to line up the stone in the same place from one time to the next. Then I alternate strokes from one side to the other, turning the holder each time. This seems like a pain, but all you are trying to do is remove the burr, so it only takes 10 to 15 strokes per side. If you need a touch up, just put the bottom of the stone on the line, lean the top against the 4x4, and sharpen at the higher angle on the fine side. When 15 to 20 strokes per side stops working, go back to the coarse side. I've been doing it this way for 10 years, though I frequently use the Sharpmaker at 20 degrees instead of the fine side of the Norton. I changed to water stones, but the procedure is the same. I can consistently get edges that will catch the hair on the back of my head, and whittle beard hair. I had a lansky and was disappointed with it. It took time to set up, cut steel slowly, didnt handle my longer blades very well, and was difficult to get repeat angles from one sharpening to the next.

If you have any serrated blades, the Spyderco Sharpmaker is almost a must. With the ultrafine rods it is ridiculous what kind of edges you can put on serrated, as well as plain edge, knives. If you want a V-stick sharpening system, like the one in your link, the Sharpmaker is the best I know of. Be warned that sharpening can become a martial art of sorts, in that some people, like me, are always trying to do a little better than yesterday. If all you need are sharp knives, the Norton will get you there. If you really want to get a hair splitting edge with only the Norton, get a strop to follow the fine side, or go to the local woodworking shop and get some 0.3 micron honing films and stick them to a smooth base and use them as a strop. Mine came in packs of 3 with sticky backing and one has lasted for nearly 8 months (I sharpen a lot).
 
There are two problems with the Lanksy system that you are looking at. The primary problem is that it is a scaled-down portable model. The rods are only 5 inches long. It just isn't efficient to have your primary sharpener that short. It is hard to do good work or remove much material with that size. I would go for something more like a 9-inch rod system. Lansky makes them, but they cost around twice as much. If you get the shorter one you would probably want to trade up soon.

The other problem is the Lansky angles. They tend to be a bit more obtuse than other makers. I prefer the angles on the Idahone system. It has a 15-degree setting that I use for most of my work. http://www.spitjack.com/page/SJ/PROD/KNIVES/IDA-CS-24

The best of the bunch, but generally the most expensive, is the Spyderco Sharpmaker. It really will give you a better edge and it works on serrated blades. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/32265-1.html
 
I believe my belt grinder was some of the best money I've ever spent, and mine's only a cheapie. If you own any really dull knives, a grinder takes a lot of the labour out of getting them in shape. The speed, while it can make it easier to make a bad mistake, also makes it easier to see the effects rather quickly, and that might make the sharpening process more concrete and less mysterious than if you're slowly working away with manual systems like stones and diamond rods.

However, it seems like you're mostly going to sharpen folders and smaller blades. And as a beginner, guided systems ease you into the sharpening process without making much of a mess of things. I use a mix of the grinder for dull stuff or reprofiling, then ceramics and wet/dry sandpaper for final honing myself. If yuo want to pick one or the other, you can weigh the pros and cons of a grinder's speed and power, but a steeper learning curve, versus a guided system's sheer ease, but relative laboriousness (and sometimes limitations with larger blades).
 
Absolutely you can use a belt sander as your primary/only sharpening method. Track down the threads/posts by Jerry Hossom here and on knifeforums. He provides a wealth of information on getting started. Another excellent alternative is the paper wheels that Richard j posts about. There's no need to learn on stones or with a Lansky first. Just learn the principles... light touch, angle control, etc. Get a few practice knives to start with (garage sale, Goodwill, ebay, etc.), and I think you'll find it easier than you think.

I personally wouldn't recommend the "crock stick" setup as a sharpener... more of a sharp maintainer. They're very limited. If you want to go that route, the Sharpmaker would be the only one I would consider.

cbw
 
If I may, I have very good hand/eye coordination. Now, with that said, I tried the belt sander (a HF belt sander, too) method following Jerry Hossom's method over at Knifeforums. I got decent results. I kept at if for a while but then happened to tried my buddy's Sharpmaker. That was that. So I got a Sharpmaker. It's easier to setup and it's mobile than a belt sander. ;) Then, months later an acquaintance showed me his knife sharpened on an Edgepro. I went out and bought an EdgePro soon after. I've been happiest with the Edgepro. Consistent, spectacular, sharp result. If you intend to just maintain edges, not major reprofiles, and don't want to spend the $ on an Edgepro get a Sharpmaker. You get very good edges with a Sharpmaker. It does have some drawbacks but overall is a fine sharpener for the $.
 
Well, I just ordered the sander reviewed by Cutlery Lover (same model, different brand label). I look forward to getting it, and I hope it works out. I'm tired of sitting here for hours and hours on reprofiling jobs because Spyderco doesn't seem to like to sharpen the edge at the ricasso....
 
Well, I just ordered the sander reviewed by Cutlery Lover (same model, different brand label). I look forward to getting it, and I hope it works out. I'm tired of sitting here for hours and hours on reprofiling jobs because Spyderco doesn't seem to like to sharpen the edge at the ricasso....

Get some cheapo knives to start with. For me, the hard part with sharpening with a grinder is maintaining a pointy tip. With my first try at a blade, I rounded the tip a bit. I started a Cold Steel GI tanto, which I absolutely don't care if I screw up. It is a thrower, that I have already ground the top guard off of.

Hair popping sharp after a couple passes per side.

I also sharpen my knives with the sand paper/mousepad method. For folders it is not too slow, smaller blades. I have done a 10 inch chopper and that took some time. But none of those tips got messed up.

Then I follow that up with a strop. I am big into convex edges right now because of how easy they are to maintain, and how well they chop.
 
Get some cheapo knives to start with. For me, the hard part with sharpening with a grinder is maintaining a pointy tip. With my first try at a blade, I rounded the tip a bit. I started a Cold Steel GI tanto, which I absolutely don't care if I screw up. It is a thrower, that I have already ground the top guard off of.

I just got it today. I tried it out on a couple cheap-o s&w knives and a Gerber. I got semi-satisfactory results on both, so I tried it out on my D4. I've kinda messed up the tip, but that's fine because I planned to give it a sharp tip with the sander (remove the "stronger" tip).

Other than that, the machine does exactly what I wanted it to do. I'm using 120 grit belts for my knife profiling. I can reprofile my knives to whatever angle in about a minute whereas it took hours and hours (I'm talking over 15-20 hours spanning over days) with stones. And with the cheap-o knives, I'm going to practice flat-grinding so that I can mod my D4 and maybe some other knives.

I do highly recommend practice, though. It's very easy to mess things up.
 
Good advice and I agree with most of it and that the belt grinder is not the place to start. It sharpens fast and can mess up or ruin a blade even faster. I prefer a slower one for sharpening then the HF one although it will do the job just fine. I have two Delta's Sa180's that are slowed down with step pulleys.

Belt grinders are a lot of fun giving almost instant gratification and you learn things about sharpening just like you do with most other systems. Belt stropping is awesome. Touch ups, with micron belts and a strop, can be made in seconds.

Other then for repairs, I mostly stick to convex edges on a slack belt with the belt grinder. Convexing knives, machetes, axes, and lawnmower blades is a snap. It also comes in handy for all kinds of work other then blades.

If you are a knife nut you will end up with one (I have three).

Check out J. Neilson using a belt grinder. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLjFjT4vYsM

Gary
 
gary jp4 said:
I prefer a slower one for sharpening then the HF one although it will do the job just fine. I have two Delta's Sa180's that are slowed down with step pulleys.

You did recommend that I get the Delta/Grizzly sometime back, but I can't afford it right now :o

I do hope to get one in the future, though.

gary jp4 said:
Other then for repairs, I mostly stick to convex edges on a slack belt with the belt grinder. Convexing knives, machetes, axes, and lawnmower blades is a snap. It also comes in handy for all kinds of work other then blades.

I'm not into convex edes, but I'm almost done doing a full convex grind on one of my S&Ws :)

It was surprisingly easier than I thought it would be. Gonna try it on the Gerber, and if it comes out alright also, I'm gonna do it on my Delica. I've been wishing for a FFG Delica for a long time, now, and I can finally do it :D
 
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