Belt wear and cost?

colu41

colu41

Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Messages
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What do you guys charge per average knife for belt wear? I still have a problem using belts until they're totally deamed useless. But I'm getting better. And realize how much easier it is with a new belt, and gives a much better finish. I just dont know when that time is.
Do you use new belts for every knife?
 
Haha. I think I remember you saying that in another thread but, so you really throw them away? Do you get more than one grind out of a belt?
 
Yeah, I throw em out... I get a couple large knives or 4-5 folders from one 3M 984 60 grit belt. 120-400 grit belts don't last near as long.
 
Don's right. I'll profile 6-10 blades off of a 36 grit ceramic, or bevel three or four small hardened stainless blades off of a 3m 967. I'll get maybe two small knives out of a 120 ceramic. I could easily go through two 400 grit AO belts per knife. I use the trizact belts pretty often for grits over about 160. They last, and they polish, but they don't cut very well.

I don't "charge" for the "belts" used in making a knife. The knife costs what the knife costs, and the belts are just part of doing business.
 
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You can get a little more life out of grinding and structured polishing belts by using a rotary wheel dresser. Also, use them on handles first, then blade bevels, then profiling. A belt on a surface grinder with a hard wheel is a good way to get life out of a belt.

Hoss
 
Jason Fry said:
Don's right. I'll profile 6-10 blades off of a 36 grit ceramic, or bevel three or four small hardened stainless blades of a 3m 977. I'll get maybe two small knives out of a 120 ceramic. I could easily go through two 400 grit AO belts per knife. I use the trizact belts pretty often for grits over about 160. They last, and they polish, but they don't cut very well.

I don't "charge" for the "belts" used in making a knife. The knife costs what the knife costs, and the belts are just part of doing business.
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Well, its more for a number. So I know how much money I need to put in for a belt order. I usually only order maybe 10-12 belts at a time. I'm thinking I need more next time.
 
I order 300 dollars worth of belts, the 3M 984f's at a time. One 36 grit belt is 10 dollars, give or take. If I get 3 250.00 knives out of it I'm ahead of the game. Don's right, if its not cutting cleanly, throw it out and put a new one on.

Its the time saved with fresh belts thats really important. I'm 71 and every hour in the shop turning out knives is precious.

Fred
 
For a long time I was doing good to order belts 60-70 dollars at a time. Now I'm up to 150-200 dollars at a time. I do knife work on the side. I've heard of full time guys who order $500 or $1000 worth of belts three or four times a year.

My typical order is something like:
2-3 36 grit VSM ceramics
2-3 50 grit 967's
5-8 120 grit VSM ceramics
20 100-120 grit AO belts for handle shaping
5-10 220 grit AO belts
5-10 320 grit AO belts
1-2 trizacts in each grit if I've blown one up lately

You could divide or multiply that by an order of magnitude, but the proportions are about right for the way I do it.
 
Typical order for me is :
20x P40 BORA7
20x P120 BORA7
10x P240 Compakt
10x P400 Compact
10x P600 Compact
And from time to time:
5x 3M Trizact A100
5x 3M Trizact A65
5x 3M Trizact A45
2x 3M Scotchbrite Fine
2x 3M Scotchbrire Very Fine.
5x 3M Trizact A16

I use them like they are free :P

When they don't cut metal ok anymore, I use them for shaping handles/scales.
 
Damn....you guys are on a much larger scale then me. lol..I'm going to order more this time but, considering I work full time, and am somewhat pretty busy, I only make 1 if I'm lucky, 2 knives a week. I will try to see what I would need to last me 2 months, and go from there. Thanks guys
 
Just figure 2 premium belts per job (about $20) and it it all work out in the end. So the extra expense is $20 or less per knife.

Mike L.
 
like there free
best bang for the buck are the gator belts but you cant hog with them
i start at 50 grit and use 80 120 and 220 (i do have a few oddball belts scottsbrite and the like)

i give "shot" belts to the blacksmith guild or other smiths that are ok with leanig hard on the grinder and not worried about over heating the steel (they seem to love them )
 
I tend to have two used belts in action for the course grits. I use the more worn one for things like profiling or hogging. Removing scale,etc.. I switch to the fresher belt for grinding bevels and flats. 220+ I run pretty slow and seem to get good life out of them.

At the end of the day there really is nothing better than a fresh belt to help with nice grinds.
 
To make coarse grit bands last longer, don't use them to start bevels. Start with a worn one.
Also ceramics need high speed to work better.


Pablo
 
colu41 said:
What do you guys charge per average knife for belt wear? I still have a problem using belts until they're totally deamed useless. But I'm getting better. And realize how much easier it is with a new belt, and gives a much better finish. I just dont know when that time is.
Do you use new belts for every knife?
Click to expand...

If you started making knives about the time you joined, we started about the same time. :)
Up until the last few months I was using like 12 to 14 belts per knife. Yikes. I was going up to the smaller grits too soon and then having to go back to courser grits to fix mistakes.
All part of the learning. Now I am down to about 3 or 4 belts per knife, but I'm able to use the course grit on a few, so that helps. I can use a 60 grit now to get darned near my finished bevel, and the higher grits to just clean up the marks from the course grit.
I have found that belt grease helps on the course grit, but I don't yet see a big difference on the finer grits, above 100 or so.
I use really worn belts for profiling and some for surface grinding. These tasks are less precise to some extent than getting a straight flat bevel.
If you are going to milk a belt, don't be doing it near the end of your grind, do it earlier. Nothing like a fresh belt to finish a bevel.
I've noticed I can spend 10 minutes with a worn belt trying to take out scratches, where a fresh belt will destroy them in one pass.
 
My coarse belts seem to have a rotation of sorts. I am doing mostly folders now and a 50grit Blaze can do at least a couple blades. After that, it hangs next to the grinder for profiling duty for a little while. I only use Trizact belts for bevels and they can do 3-4 folder blades and then they don't work as efficiently but, I can usually get more life out of the A45's by running them on my SG. Beyond that, all the flex belts just go until they're worn out which is more subjective since they're used for things like shaping and contouring. I buy all my belts in quantities that will get me a discount; usually 10+. I've given up shopping around for the best prices on different belts, I now buy all my belts from Tru-Grit, get discounts on everything, and don't wait for out-of-stock items.

Bob
 
PEU said:
To make coarse grit bands last longer, don't use them to start bevels. Start with a worn one.
Also ceramics need high speed to work better.


Pablo
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Great tips! Yes I use 40 grit blaze for profiling. Can get quite a few blades before I have to toss it. Just seems like anything over 220 after cleaning up bevels of one blade you have to grab a new one for the next.
 
I agree with everyone else, pretend they're free. Your time is worth more than a $10 belt.

Keep your belts separated by grit, and if possible keep them in a room other than where you grind, so they don't get dusty. Using a 400-grit belt and realizing it has other swarf and dust on it already will make you say bad words.

As you already figured out, use glazed/worn belts for rough hogging and profiling and knocking off that first "corner" on the edge. Mill scale and sharp corners will wear out a new belt real quick. Also, old belts are handy for smoothing out the edges on leather sheaths.

Grind bevels with nice sharp fresh belts. Sometimes worn belts make weird, uneven scratches that are a pain to clean up later. Belt "erasers" help knock gunk and swarf out from between the grits, especially when grinding stuff like oily woods. A proper dressing tool like DevinT described is even better, but in a pinch you can use a carbide end mill to knock gunk loose and help break up "fresh" surfaces on the belt.

Every single time I've gotten frustrated with a bevel seeming to take forever and finally put a fresh belt on, I said "Dang, I should have changed that belt 20 minutes ago, I'd be done by now!" :D

Just for fun, try turning an old belt inside-out and dress the cloth backing with polishing compound, and use it to polish/power-strop your final edge. Like you might do with a buffer. Use a light touch! If the edge is already pretty sharp, a couple passes on that can remove the small burr and crisp it right up.

I have also stapled worn 30-60 grit belts down to my father-in-law's wheelchair ramp on his house for gription. It's not very pretty, but it does work.

Other than that... once they stop cutting well, just cut 'em at the seam and throw them away. (cutting them prevents you from being tempted to use 'em again, and they fit in a garbage can easier that way...)
 
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