Oh shit here we go ... I have a feeling I'm asking for it , posting this in the benchmade forum . But I'm a straight shooting rebel who never runs from contraversy. Let me preface this by saying I own both knives and have no bias either way . And that these are my opinions not scientific fact .. I won't keep you in suspense on my preference . In every way , materials, form and function, the zt 0450 blows the 943 out of the water and sends it packing . The only thing the 943 has going for it is the axis lock. And I find that actually a detriment . I can't tune it to where it swings freely with zero blade play . Also the blade has movement in it when closed .. doesn't seem solid . I'll leave it at that for now I'll save the rest of my reasons for rebuttals. .. not trying to start trouble . Just a straight shooter telling how it is from my perspective ... let's hear your opinions ... should be interesting ... bring it !
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Benchmade 943 vs zero tolerance 0450
- Thread starter panzeron
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I have to purchase and try the 0450 before forming a complete opinion. I do own a 943, 941, and 940 and I think it's one of the very best edc's on the market. I've put off getting the 0450 but I have been very interested in it since it was a prototype.
We are all going to have different opinions but a thing to note is that the 940 series has been in the market for over a decade and the 0450 just came out this year. Will the 0450 be in production in ten years? Is it the next classic? Time will tell but what we do know is that the 940 remains as a best seller and this is important because remaining in production for so long shows without doubt that people like the 940 series....and we all know that both BM and ZT like to disco models that doesn't sell well. In fact if you look at KAI/ZT's website just once a year, you will see that their lineups are signficiantly different from the year before with many getting disco'd. Again I bring this up because: while everyone will have differing opinions on which knife they think is better, sales and history show that the 940 is doing just fine and that is a more solid thing to stand on that he said she said flaming.... we do not yet know that about the 0450. It's a good start for the 0450 though, and it looks like its getting passionate fans (like you).
We are all going to have different opinions but a thing to note is that the 940 series has been in the market for over a decade and the 0450 just came out this year. Will the 0450 be in production in ten years? Is it the next classic? Time will tell but what we do know is that the 940 remains as a best seller and this is important because remaining in production for so long shows without doubt that people like the 940 series....and we all know that both BM and ZT like to disco models that doesn't sell well. In fact if you look at KAI/ZT's website just once a year, you will see that their lineups are signficiantly different from the year before with many getting disco'd. Again I bring this up because: while everyone will have differing opinions on which knife they think is better, sales and history show that the 940 is doing just fine and that is a more solid thing to stand on that he said she said flaming.... we do not yet know that about the 0450. It's a good start for the 0450 though, and it looks like its getting passionate fans (like you).
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I think the 943 specifically, but we can go ahead with the 940 line- is superior for me in almost every way.
1- I strongly prefer the axis lock. I've experienced a much higher failure rate with frame locks.
2- The materials aren't really all that different. S30V vs. S35VN are both steels that I've owned a lot of. I've had different performance from different makers and heat treats, to be expected. I slightly give the edge to S35VN for my personal preference, but for the most part I barely notice. And that's not because of edge retention which it loses - but due to ease of sharpening.
3- Aesthetically I prefer the 943.
4- I prefer the 943s handle shape for practical / comfort reasons.
1- I strongly prefer the axis lock. I've experienced a much higher failure rate with frame locks.
2- The materials aren't really all that different. S30V vs. S35VN are both steels that I've owned a lot of. I've had different performance from different makers and heat treats, to be expected. I slightly give the edge to S35VN for my personal preference, but for the most part I barely notice. And that's not because of edge retention which it loses - but due to ease of sharpening.
3- Aesthetically I prefer the 943.
4- I prefer the 943s handle shape for practical / comfort reasons.
I get what you're saying . A lot of truth there . I'm not saying my 943 is junk it's a good knife just not a great knife especially at its price point . As far as longevity is concerned there is something to be said . But it also depends on the companies phylosophy. Take spyderco for instance . They can have a great selling proven classic . But t h ey don't sit on that , they continue to try to improve . For instance the endura 1,2,3,4 and so on ... zt is all over the map in 10 years I bet no current model will still be here .. so imo , I don't think that's so much proof on how good it is .
With allowing axis locks to swing and lock like a safe, I've found that loosening the screw nearing the pivot a little to relieve general tension and then just tuning in the pivot allows for slippery openings and lockup that is unshakeable, I've done it on my Osborn rift, pardue grip, and pardue herringbone
I have mine tuned to freely swing closed . There is still the ever slight blade play . Not enough to really affect the function of the knife though . But to get it with zero play , the blade won't swing freely . If the blade don't swing freely it negates the convenience of the axis lock . One other problem I have with the axis lock is the blade has movement when closed . It doesn't secure it very good ...
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I own ZT's. 0560, 0566, 0301, Great knives, and I enjoy them, but I find myself carrying the 940-1. Mine has perfect blade play, and it is rock solid. Flips out with the thumb studs very easily yet locks up solidly. I don't have an 0450 yet, so can't really compare it, but my point is there are not many knives out there that are a better EDC than the 940, 941, 943.
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Can't see where you're coming from to be honest. From an objective standpoint the 0450 is a nice knife in terms of design, build quality, and materials, but it's incredibly unfriendly to lefties due to the strength of the detent and the position of the lockbar.
As for my own non-objective opinion, I greatly prefer the handle of the 940 which offers significantly more purchase for my ring and pinkie fingers, and requires minimal grip adjustment when operating the lock. I find the axis lock to be superior to framelocks in almost every respect (other than simplicity), and I've had none of the issues you mentioned with the Axis lock- in fact, I was able to get my 940-1 to open effortlessly once the lock was disengaged. I suspect your action is gritty or the washers/liners are rougher than they should be.
As for the 0450, I was lucky enough to walk into a knife shop while they were opening their first shipment, and was subsequently able to handle 8 out of the 10 they received. After I "resolved" the issue of my of my grip as a leftie, I found no two to be alike in terms of detent, ranging from finger-shreddingly difficult to flip to falling open at the slightest touch. Functional? Yes. Optimal? No. Had the 0450 used thumbstuds instead of a flipper it might be more lefty-friendly, but it didn't, so it's not. Add to that an entirely dissappointing blade grind and I have no reason whatsoever to like the 0450. I don't even own a 940 anymore, but I'd still take it over the 0450 any day of the week.
As for my own non-objective opinion, I greatly prefer the handle of the 940 which offers significantly more purchase for my ring and pinkie fingers, and requires minimal grip adjustment when operating the lock. I find the axis lock to be superior to framelocks in almost every respect (other than simplicity), and I've had none of the issues you mentioned with the Axis lock- in fact, I was able to get my 940-1 to open effortlessly once the lock was disengaged. I suspect your action is gritty or the washers/liners are rougher than they should be.
As for the 0450, I was lucky enough to walk into a knife shop while they were opening their first shipment, and was subsequently able to handle 8 out of the 10 they received. After I "resolved" the issue of my of my grip as a leftie, I found no two to be alike in terms of detent, ranging from finger-shreddingly difficult to flip to falling open at the slightest touch. Functional? Yes. Optimal? No. Had the 0450 used thumbstuds instead of a flipper it might be more lefty-friendly, but it didn't, so it's not. Add to that an entirely dissappointing blade grind and I have no reason whatsoever to like the 0450. I don't even own a 940 anymore, but I'd still take it over the 0450 any day of the week.
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hahahahah I was going to tell you that..
Saintz.. very valid points .. the 940 is ambidextrous. A lot boils down to personal preference . I admit I am basing this on only one example of each knife . Morrow .. that was definitely a straight shot of pure rebel adrenaline. Moving this post , I humbly concede my rebel status to you .. guess it was to controversial for the benchmade forum .. they are a timid bunch ..
