Benchmade EDC M390 edge geometry and sharpening

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Jun 20, 2006
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I would like some advice/opinions on what edge to put on a Benchmade Valet for EDC use, I was thinking of getting an Edgepro or Wicked Edge, from what I recall the Edgepro will only do a flat grind regardless of which system you buy and for that kind of coin it seems stupid to limit myself to 1 kind of grind.

I know the M390 is tough stuff and I have a KME with decent stones (at least 2 diamond) but I'm confused about where to start with high quality information regarding how and why to put different edges on a knife.

I don't want to screw up the Valet, and I don't want to spend tons of money on a system that only allows 1 grind.

If anyone can point me to good resources on blade geometry and the most versatile system I'd appreciate it.
 
Not sure where you got the idea that the Edge Pro will only do one grind, as that's not the case. If you have a KME, might as well just add the rest of the diamond stones and call it a day rather than looking for another system.

As far as angle and such, that's a matter of personal opinion. It very much depends on the type of cutting you're going to be doing. For my M390 knives, I feel perfectly comfortable putting a 15 DPS edge on them. I also tend to go with a polished edge for M390 rather than toothy. It takes a refined, polished edge very very well in my experience (have at least 4 knives in M390 from 2 different makers). Most recently I put a 15 DPS edge on my Spyderco Para 3 in M390, polished to 0.05 micron. It's stupid sharp.
 
The customer service rep told me it only does flat grinds. Not saying she is right, but I did ask her if she was 100% sure and she said yes. In fact she was the one that said "flat grind", I didn't ask so I don't think she was just distracted or something.
 
I have zero use or interest in a convex grind.
I use my folders pretty hard at work in challenging and abrasive materials that will dull basic folder steel from Case or SAK to where I need to sharpen it during the day.
As opposed to M4 which can go a week or more and still be performing with precision.
As an interesting side note S110V does not perform as welling for the hard rubber trimming that I do as the M4 and I have used three different knives in S110V doing this same work.

Convex ? Maybe for bush craft or masonry work but not folding pocket knife work.
Nah dude . . . nah.
The Edge Pro does what I need and I'm picky and a metal worker by trade.
Besides the easiest edge to produce free hand is a convex edge . . . I mean come on.
That's part of why freehand sharpening sucks; it rounds the geometry all to hell.

PS: I have a couple of knives in M390 and like it better than S110V. I'm not saying it is going to cut more rope but I like the polished edge M390 holds well.
I find M390 pretty easy to sharpen on Shapton Glass Edge Pro stones. If I were to reprofile it and have to move a lot of metal then diamonds are my friends to do the heavy lifting.
 
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Awesome that we have a pro in this thread that knows metal-
Also, I think that the comment about all systems just doing a flat grind needs to be highlighted-
I think most of us have assumed that these ultra expensive sharpening systems can do everything and the companies that sell them certainly don't make it a point to tell us otherwise.

I don't know where to go from here. I'm the guy everyone comes to for sharpening, but it's really just a handful of tools and I don't know all the grinds, where and when and how to make them, etc.

I also can't find a comprehensive resource like a book or something where all the info is accurate and in one spot.

Trying to sift through forums hasn't been a good way to learn.
If anyone out there knows of a book or other resource, a kind of "bible" of edge geometry and sharpening please let me know.

I wouldn't mind spending the money on a system that can do it all, but right now it seems like that doesn't exist.
 
Using a guided system in the pursuit of finishing with a convex is doable. Before I was comfortable with freehanding, I used to use my Lansky & DMT Aligner sets to create a narrow-as-possible V-bevelled edge first, then following with hard-backed sandpaper to 'strop' the shoulders of the bevels into a smooth & thin convex behind that crisp edge, and then polishing the convex on something like a hard-backed denim strop with some aggressive polishing compound, OR doing the same on a firm/hard wood strop.

The idea is to convex what's behind the apex, and not any part of the apex itself. Issues with the edge geometry being rounded into dullness aren't due to convexing itself, but doing it with the wrong materials or bad technique, i.e., the held angle too high or using too much pressure on softer substrates, or a combination of those things. Done properly, a convexed edge will cut like a demon, even better than a crisp-shouldered v-bevel in some uses. The crisp shoulders of V-bevels can bind in some materials, like heavy cardboard. Convexing yields even more improvement in thicker blades, if used for cutting cardboard. A convex done at good shallow geometry, with the shoulders of the edge polished, will go through heavy cardboard like a laser.

Keeping the apex crisp on a convex edge is about using methods and materials that reduce or eliminate rounding at the apex, and allowing the natural freehand variation in angle to convex only what's behind the apex, i.e., the shoulders of the edge. Bad convexing comes from using substrate materials that compress too much (mouse pads or softish leather, for example), and more so when those soft materials are also relied upon in trying to refine & finish the apex itself. Use the soft stuff to shape & polish what's behind the edge, if you want to. But for refining the edge itself, something much, much firmer will allow one to 'sneak up to' the cheeks of the apex for precise refining & thinning of the edge geometry, without letting the abrasive roll over & around the apex in the process, which is when it'll get ruined. Put in practical terms, convex right up to the edge using something very firm, or even hard, like a stone. Use this to apex the edge and produce/reduce the burr. Then, for additional convexing behind the edge, something with a little more 'give' in the substrate can be used to work the shoulders. For me, I no longer use anything thicker or softer than hard-backed denim or linen (used with compound) to do any finishing work on edges. That means I never use leather with compound, anymore.

All of my favorite edges are thinly-ground, shallow convexes shaped on stones, with edge geometry at/below 25° inclusive. Most of them come out finished with little or no recognizable 'bevels' behind the edge, instead transitioning from the thin & sharp edge grind into the upper (primary) grind in a shallow arc. They cut like devils, and are durable and very easy to maintain.
 
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I use leather backed diamond lapping film for convex edges on my wicked edge. Quick and easy. Jende has a wide grit range of precut films for the wicked edge, and the psa backed Jende films are stiffer than the films sold on the wicked edge website. With the stiffer films, rounding the edge isn’t a concern unless a lot of pressure is used.
 
That's a powerful argument for the convex edge. I'm obviously overthinking a lot of this, but is it worth becoming an expert in a dozen edge geometries? I have need for edc, fish filleting, hunting (gutting, skinning) but little else. I don't do any axe work, scissors and tools seem not worth the time unless you use them in your profession, etc.
For hunting I just use a drop point fixed blade sharpened with a redi-edge and stropped and usually a heavy fixed blade like a ka-bar or larger to split the pelvis.
I do want to put a mirror edge on the Benchmade Valet with the absolute best edge for not only the household tasks of opening packaging but also food prep and cutting cordage, lines, and whatever comes up in my outdoor hobbies.
Convex is the one I should spend my time researching then, right? And what's everyone's thoughts on investing in the best system vs. learning my KME? I know Ron personally from KME and I have tried a half dozen times to get the hang of the system but I can't do it. I've stood next to him trying on a dozen occasions over the years and he can't spot anything I'm doing wrong by watching me so it's really frustrating.
I also have a good grinding wheel with a high quality stone and paper wheels and a braodhead system to boot but I don't even want to try that until I'm confident with a good manual system because I know I'll just end up ruining a bunch of knives.
With the Redi-Edge and strop I can get 90% of knives shaving sharp, but obviously there's only 1 angle and a lot of the perceived sharpness of doing things that way is because it creates micro serrations- not something I'm willing to do with my expensive Benchmade.
Don't know where to start except to keep digging through threads here. There's no good book on the topic?
 
If you can’t get the KME to work after that sort of instruction, I struggle to think of what sort of book would help.

Whatever system you decide to try, all I can advise is to read threads here, watch lots of videos, and practice, practice, practice. I decided on freehanding, but what held me back was skill and expertise, which I got through practice and reading/videos. It took hours of frustrating practice to get any good at it.
 
I wouldn't overthink it too much. All this can get too deep into one's head, if trying to absorb too much at once.

Bottom line, whether it's V-bevels or convex, any method keeping the edge angle down to 30° inclusive or lower will handle 99.9% of everything one needs to do with a sharpened edge. Convex has certain advantages, and is a natural result (to some degree) of any freehand sharpening. So, when the time comes you're comfortable with freehand, some convexing will come with it. But I wouldn't sweat at all, over using a 'system' (guided) sharpener that doesn't do convex. Sharp is sharp, after all. A fully-apexed, crisp edge at good cutting geometry (referring to angle, not shape) will always cut well. Focus on that first. If you also want the perfectly flat & mirrored bevels for some edges, then the guided system will do that too. But good sharpening at it's most fundamental level comes down to simply making a fully-apexed edge (to the burr, then clean it up) at decent cutting geometry. Do that first, and the rest of the tweaks and refinement can come later. Even just ONE stone in the 320 - 600 grit range can produce edges that'll blow your mind, if finished fully on that stone. That'll get you hooked for good, and you'll be on your way. :thumbsup:
 
I use leather backed diamond lapping film for convex edges on my wicked edge. Quick and easy. Jende has a wide grit range of precut films for the wicked edge, and the psa backed Jende films are stiffer than the films sold on the wicked edge website. With the stiffer films, rounding the edge isn’t a concern unless a lot of pressure is used.

Not to hi-jack but you could you go in to more detail about your process?

When you say leather backed films, do they come that way? Is that what PSA backed means?

Or do you use leather strips for the Wicked Edge and put lapping film on top?

I’m confused.
 
The customer service rep told me it only does flat grinds. Not saying she is right, but I did ask her if she was 100% sure and she said yes. In fact she was the one that said "flat grind", I didn't ask so I don't think she was just distracted or something.
Apparently I misunderstood your question. I thought you were referring to the primary bevel on the knife (i.e. "full flat ground" vs. "saber ground", etc.) rather than the secondary/"cutting edge" bevel.

The KME does have an accessory arm to allow convex secondary bevels if that's what you're after. Frankly I don't see the point as, IMO, one of the big reasons you buy a guided system is to avoid convex bevels which are common in freehand sharpening.

I think probably you should just focus on mastering your KME at this point. Investing more $ in more systems before you've mastered the one you own doesn't sound logical to me.
 
PSA= (P)ressure (S)ensitive (A)dhesive. He may be sticking the film to a leather blank.
 
If the leather is tanned and smooth it would probably peel right off. Very dependent on the leather I'd say. You can also "bone" or burnish the leather to make it less prone to problems like that. The adhesive would of course make a difference also - there are varying levels of tenacity/stickiness.
 
I've been EDCing a Spyderco C-36 Military model with an M390 blade for about two years now and I've mainly been using diamond stones to remove the micro dings and dents. Then I mainly use all of my Spyderco Ceramic stones to finish it up with and I've had sterling results. Now I'm not at all saying it's the only way to fly>> because I'm always open to something better but the results I've had with diamond and Spyderco ceramic I sure can't complain with the great success I've had up till now.
 
Not to hi-jack but you could you go in to more detail about your process?

When you say leather backed films, do they come that way? Is that what PSA backed means?

Or do you use leather strips for the Wicked Edge and put lapping film on top?

I’m confused.

I paste the lapping film to the surface of the leather. The leather does get a bit torn up, but not enough to cause problems. I bought the strops specifically to paste films to and don’t use compounds on them.

Update: Today I tried out using lapping films on balsa strops instead of the leather ones and the balsa works even better. Got my 20CV(Crucible's version of m390) Spyderco Mule to split free hanging hairs at 18dps and 1.5 micron lapping films(full sharpening process was 30/15/9/6/3/1.5 micron films applied to balsa strops).
 
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I have been carrying a Benchmade Valet for over a year and have only sharpened on the KME with no issues.
I sharpen the Valet at 20 degrees and my mini grip at 18.
I see no issues whatsoever with using the KME on your knife but you may want to invest in an additional stone or two.
As someone else mentioned, KME also sells a convexing rod but I don't think you would want that for the Valet.
 
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