Is there a way of knowing when one has reached the "good" metal when attempting to repair a suspected burnt/ fatigued edge without cutting hundreds of feet of cardboard to test the edge? Recently picked up an m4 freek that doesn't seem to be living up to expectations as far as edge retention. Also, am I expecting too much? The blade takes a razor sharp edge very easily. How long should m4 steel hold a shaving sharp edge when testing on cardboard?
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Benchmade fatigued edges
- Thread starter nigol
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No steel will hold a razor sharp edge for very long when cutting cardboard, which is very abrasive, particularly when contaminated with dust/dirt/staples etc. M4 and S110v do pretty well by comparison and will hold an acceptable edge longer than most steels but won't retain a shaving edge when cutting cardboard.
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I’ve used s35vn, ZDP, and M4 a lot for cutting cardboard. I work in the shipping department of a factory. There are many days when I cut an absurd amount of cardboard, heavy duty stuff, normal stuff, dirty stuff.
Razor edges don’t last with any steel for me. And with my experience m4 seems to be pretty similar to s35vn. Maybe a tiny tiny bit better. I also went into using m4 expecting crazy edge retention when cutting cardboard, then was confused when it wasn’t. That said I still love using my manix 2 in m4 for cutting cardboard and I can usually go with sharpening every other day or once *maybe* every 3 days depending on how much/what I have to cut. Pretty good for me. Sorry if my amounts aren’t very specific, that’s just how I keep track of things.
Kevin
Razor edges don’t last with any steel for me. And with my experience m4 seems to be pretty similar to s35vn. Maybe a tiny tiny bit better. I also went into using m4 expecting crazy edge retention when cutting cardboard, then was confused when it wasn’t. That said I still love using my manix 2 in m4 for cutting cardboard and I can usually go with sharpening every other day or once *maybe* every 3 days depending on how much/what I have to cut. Pretty good for me. Sorry if my amounts aren’t very specific, that’s just how I keep track of things.
Kevin
Thank you. The bar is set pretty high continually for the super steels. A bit too high in most cases. Thanks for confirming this for me.
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Out of the dozens and dozens of BMs I own/have owned, I have NEVER had an edge that was suspected of being "burnt".
As indicated in previous posts, cardboard is rough on any knife from any manufacturer.
Thanks Kevin. I think the super steels are hyped up a little too much and then people have unrealistic expectations. I honestly don't see any difference between m4 and s30v as far as edge retention. My turret holds an edge just as good as the freek. My mini adamas in cruwear seems a little better than both. All three knives have near identical edges that I did myself the old school way on diamond and ceramic. Been trying to determine between the three which one will be my go to. All things considered I'm leaning toward the mini adamas. My endura 4 wave is also a contender mostly because of the slim profile and ease of deployment. I have also been impressed with the spyderco vg10. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. Was really nagging at me that I may have wasted alot of money on a substandard blade.
Thank you for your reply. The blade showed no indication of being burned like discoloration or chipping. I actually chopped wood with it and not a single chip. The edge doesn't roll either. Some of the you tube video on this topic can be a bit misleading I think. I am new to the forum and very happy with the no nonsense replies that I have received. Thanks again
S30V and M4 are pretty close in edge wear, so you're not likely to see much difference unless other factors come into play, such as edge thickness and edge angle and burr formation.
But there are major differences in edge wear in various knife steels. For example, S90V will hold an edge well more than twice as long as 1095 at the same Rc, with other factors held constant, as Larrin's work shows.
When other factors are not held constant, as in Ankerson's work comparing edge wear on production knives shows, the differences can be larger.
Kinves are infinitely complex. But super steels are really super, at least in certain aspects of knife performance, including edge wear.
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It may benefit from a good sharpening. Benchmade factory edges are often somewhat rough, and while initially seeming quite sharp, they might not feel as sharp as expected very quickly in some cases.
(Other will disagree, but that has been my experience.)
I have also experienced with many knives from many manufacturers that it may take a sharpening or two to get a good, long(er) lasting edge, particularly if the factory edge was machine sharpened.
In short, I would expect that after a good sharpening, and into the future, that edge retention should improve.
YMMV
(Other will disagree, but that has been my experience.)
I have also experienced with many knives from many manufacturers that it may take a sharpening or two to get a good, long(er) lasting edge, particularly if the factory edge was machine sharpened.
In short, I would expect that after a good sharpening, and into the future, that edge retention should improve.
YMMV
Thank you for your reply. I actually put my own edge on the blade at 17 degrees per side and have shaped it a few times since. It's a good knife so far. I think m4 is way overhyped especially on you tube and my expectations were too high. As others have stared, nothing holds a shaving sharp edge for long when cutting cardboard.my experience with blade steel for the last 40 years has been primarily 440c. I carried a Buck 110 for 25 of those 40 years. Alot of talk on YouTube hypes m4 as holding a razor edge through just about anything and this is simply unrealistic as the good people of this forum have pointed out.
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I too have found the edge retention of super steels to be somewhat underwhelming, especially when cutting dirty medium. Typically in a work knife I'd rather have something I can touch up easily on the fly.
Thanks for the reply. That would be my endura 4 which is still in the running. I almost feel obligated to make one of the benchmades my edc just because of how expensive they are.
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- Nothing wrong with not EDCing a knife just because it is very nice - I have a few knives that bring me a lot of personal pleasure like an Ironwood Dodo or a fancy XL Espada, but are not suitable EDCs for one reason or another. I just use them whenever I can or choose.
I have counted, and sometimes I can carry $1000+ of knife (Microtech UTX-70, Spyderco Ti PM2, fancy Espada XL, and a custom SAK) and sometimes go out with nothing but a LW Buck 110 that I dyed burgundy, and a special SAK, total under $50. Its totally up to me, whatever I feel comfortable with on the day of question!
Very true sir. Well said.
M4 and S30V actually have very similar wear resistance. So your observations aren't surprising since they track with the scientific data. This doesn't mean M4 is underwhelming so much as it means S30V is an excellent steel too. M4 does have better toughness though, but S30V is stainless.
my experience is that m4 is quite a bit better than s30v... but that might be due to the blade shape ( on my spyderco gb2, a very hollow grind...)
guess the difference is not measuring when it stops shaving hair... but it keeps cutting cardboard for days... which is what its needed for ; )
guess the difference is not measuring when it stops shaving hair... but it keeps cutting cardboard for days... which is what its needed for ; )
Thanks for the input. My BM Turret is the only knife I have with s30v and cuts like a beast. The factory edge did micro chip early on but since I sharpened it myself I have not had this problem again. I am hesitant to subject the blade to any impact such as chopping because of s30v having the reputation of chipping in this area. The only reason I am putting this knife on the back burner as far as edc is it's just to big and heavy. If I do carry it it goes in a pouch on my belt. Other than the weight, the knife is stellar. I have put the m4 freek through some pretty stringent use and so far no micro chipping or edge rolling. Seems very tough.
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Absolutely - I wish more people would get it once and for all, that proper edge geometry/grind profile for the task at hand, and quality heat treatment - trumps steel type the majority of the time - or at least levels the playing field significantly.
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