Benchmade: old AFCK (M800) vs. new AFKC (M804)

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YoungCutter

Joined
Sep 17, 2001
Messages
1,218
Hello folks,

got a question about AFCKs:

I know the most definitive difference between the 800 and 804 AFCK is it's opener hole, but what else is different?

Also, imagine if you could have the hole of your choice on either model, as far as the rest of the attributes go, would you rather have an 800 or an 804?
 
I posted recently about the difference between the two. I stated that I thought the AFCK II had thicker liners and larger washers. I recently picked up an AFCK with the round hole. It was a production run right before the change to a round hole. The parts are the same dimension and the round hole AFCK matches the new AFCK in fit and finish.

It has been my observation that there have been approx. 4 different runs of AFCK prior to the oblong hole AFCK II. 1) The earliest one I have seen had smoother G-10 scales, screws tapped into the G-10 instead of a nut and the emblem was black buterfly on silver back ground,2) the next run used a more coarse G-10 scale, the emblem changed to black backgound and silver butterfly,3) the next had the coarse G-10 the new emblem and they started using nuts for the screws to tap into, 4)had all of the changes and started using the newer clips and 154CM instead of ATS-34. I guess there could actually be 5 runs because the steel transition happened after the change in run 4. That brought us up to the AFCK II.

I had seen quality problems with the #3 run. The lock was weak, the blade wouldn't be centered, blade would rub the liner, grind lines were off, scales didn't fit properly, never found a sharp one. After thinking about this, I am wonder if the problems I saw were in part due to tooling that was begining to wear out. Dimensions weren't as tight, so problems started to arise. The #4 run saw new tooling and problems started to go away.

Just a theory, no basis in fact.

Aside from my theory, the only difference I can see, the hole.

I would prefer the round hole, but not with the chamfered edge. I would like to see the opeing hole the have a more squared edge, reducing the chnace of thumb slippage a bit.
 
From what I have seen, you're right on target. The "Gen III" AFCK's (if you will) had some real problems. At least they had the threadserts you mentioned. Threading screws straight into G10, no matter how tough it is, is a losing proposition in my opinion, and with the manner in which I tend to rough stuff up.

The new AFCK's will have the best of all worlds. While I'm not too nuts about the tip-up (as it defies the intended opening MO with the hole openers), the Axis makes it stronger, ambidextrous in every sense, and gives it a locking mech that will stand the test of time, not to mention a fine blade steel. Though, I must say, I have yet to wear out the lock on my M2 AFCK. Just my .007.

Professor.
 
There should be a round opener hole or none at all. As your thumb pivots in the "new" hole it gets stuck.
 
Professor, if and when I get the AXIS AFCK, I have some thoughts on the clip. If the clip can be modified properly to permit acces to the lock, there should be no reason why it can't be drilled and tapped for tip down carry. Looking at pictures, i think it can be done. Of course that might all change once I get one in hand.
 
I own a "Gen 2" AFCK 800bt and have had no problems whatsoever with it. To be honest though, if I had to state a problem with my AFCK I would say that its opening hole is a little small and uncomfortable for me. A couple of days ago I handled the new AFCK and found the oblong opening hole (suprise) to offer slightly better comfort and/or speed in opening.

I wouldn't trade my beloved AFCK for one, but I'd say BM did very well on the new model.
 
Just got a Axis AFCK, and I see not reason why you couldn't drill and tap holes for tip down carry. Cannot see why you would want to though. The Axis lock does a dandy job of holding the blade closed.

Originally posted by pst pjc
There should be a round opener hole or none at all. As your thumb pivots in the "new" hole it gets stuck.
Click to expand...

Hee-hee. That's silly. Well, unless you have really tiny thumbs.
 
Some observations on the Axis AFCK:

I’ve been waiting for this day for about a year and a half. It’s finally here and it’s definitely real. For those of you who’ve also had wet dreams about this knife, you won’t be disappointed. Compared to the old AFCK (800), the Axis is a little bit thicker, due to thicker liners, and a little bit heavier, because the liners are SS. The Axis’ blade appears to have a little bit more belly, but that could be due to my having sharpened the old one several times. The back spacer is still delrin :(, but, at least on mine, it doesn’t go all the way to the butt, but stops about .25” short. I don’t know why this is, but testing on the palm of my hand it makes for even more effective pommel strikes, for those of you who are into that. It might also help avoid a cracked spacer for those like me who’ve been known to break glass with an AFCK’s butt (gotta remember to use the Supertool for that kind of sh!t). The thumb ridged area of the 800’s blade is done differently on the 806D2 to accommodate the Axis lock and, IMO, it works almost as well. No more round metal butterfly logo insert in the handle scales – doesn’t make a difference to me. The position of the lanyard hole is in the same place on the handle, but it looks funny with the tip-up clip. I don’t use lanyards so I don’t really care. Yes it is tip-up, which I prefer, even though a little bit more of the knife sticks out of the pocket when clipped. The oval hole – it works, but I like round ones better. The action is incredibly smooth, and I haven’t even lubed it yet. When I put it to my arm to shave, it was so sharp I had to stop because I was afraid I’d remove a layer of skin; when I turned it over to try the other side it didn’t work as well. I had had thoughts of taking a Dremel to the hole and giving it a wave, but that doesn’t look very practically possible due to the shape and position of the hole, if anyone does this successfully please let me know. Second only to the Sifu, the AFCK is my favorite handle, but I still like the 710’s blade better. Holding the two next to each other the pivot pin, Axis lock, & blade tip are in the exact same relative positions and I’m wondering if a blade swap would be possible?? If I try it I’ll let you guys know how it works. One word of caution- when I sat down to compare both AFCK’s, I got mixed up as to which I had in my hand and tried to push over the liner on my Axis. If you’re very used to your liner lock AFCK, pay extra attention when you start to carry the Axis, as it could confuse you and that might have negative consequences.

I also got to fondle a 941 today and it is very slick looking. If my knife budget for the year weren’t shot between this 806D2 & The Forum Knife, I’d probably need a 941BC1BL (I think that’s right). Great knife too.

I got my Axis AFCK from Duane Weikum (a really nice guy) at a very reasonable price, so if you need one his email is dweikum@yahoo.com
 
I own a current run AFCK-II in satin finish, plain edge. It is, in my opinion, well worth the price I paid. The fit and finish are excellent - the satin blade is actually nearly mirror-polished - and it locks up well every single time. The handle design is top notch because it feels like it fits right into your hand and becomes a part of it.

I've heard of flexibility problems with the AFCKs, but this one exhibits only a slight flex with hard, combined pressure from both hands. Back spacer is some plastic material...could have been better, but no biggie.

As for the hole, I've had experience with both round and oval. It's a matter of personal preference, since I can open both round and oval with equal ease and speed.

You won't be disappointed with the AFCK-II if mine is any indication.
 
Well it sure looks to me like an AFCK-II or AFCK Axis unless I really can't handle the oval holes, I don't wanna run the risk of ending up with say... a 3rd generation M800, be a heck of a waste of moolah.
 
Last night I got a new Benchmade AFCK axis lock folder in D2 steel as a going away present from my co-workers. I am so impressed. My only other Benchmade was a CQC7 that gave me troubles with the liner and blade coating. This knife came out of the box so sharp I knew not to try and shave hair off my arm. Instead, I took a piece of copy paper and shaved slivers off the edge. I love the axis lock. It is smooth and looks simple. I found the oblong hole to be fine. I own two enduras and a delica so I like the spyderco hole but this caused no problems. I have always liked the AFCK design and to get it in D2 and with the axis lock is just great. The blade does have a black coating with "Pre Production 0097/1000" written on it. The knife is so pretty I cannot bear to use it everyday to open cartons and other cutting tasks. Oh yeah, I got the combo-edge which is a first for me as I usually carry plain edges. Benchmade is certainly doing things right!!!
 
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