Benchmade Vex, Benchmade NRA Gunstock folder (Fecas)

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Oct 1, 2004
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I would like to share some pictures and my initial impressions of the 2006 Benchmade Vex and NRA Fecas
Gunstock folder. There are 9 pictures making for 1 mb of data.

The Vex is a mainland China manufactured 3.29" folder going for about $40. The steel
is labeled as 8Cr14MoV, although previously there appears to have been some ambiguity about the material.
I can afford better knives, but I bought this one mainly because the high grind and the hole opening suggested
that this might be an interesting alternative to some Spyderco models [especially the partial-ground one].
I think holes generally function better than thumb studs, so it is interesting to see other company's
interpretation of the hole. This came from New Graham about the middle of December. This was no
longer a first-production piece (to which there was complaint of poor fit/finish). There is nothing notable
about the fit and finish. The blade is a bit off-centre, but it doesn't bother me.

The flat grind is very high, but not quite "thin" enough to be really notable. I generally prefer higher
grinds than the partial grinds (Delica/Endura, Byrds...). But the one attribute that seems out of place
is the weight (probably due to the thick duel liners), at 4.7 ounzes. That is more than many of the 4"
tactials (AFCK, Military, 710...), and about the same as a NRA Gunstock and a Spyderco Native sans clip.
If this was a 3 ounze knife, I'd say it is worth consideration to compare it to say the Delica/Endura.


The NRA (produced by Benchmade) Fecas Gunstock folder is about the same length as the Vex, going for
about $20. I bought this one to try out Benchmade's supposedly hard Aus8 and the hollow grind that looked
really promising. It is Taiwan produced, blade of Aus8 and having duo nested liners.

Overall the knife is quite stylish. The grind is indeed fairly good (picture below). It is tempting to try and sharpen this
knife flat to the stone. I think this is a more sensible knife to do such a thing on for starters as opposed
to things like the Native, Jess Horn... As for the handle, the protrusion in the middle of the handle is not
too awkward, but the "flared" end to the handle is unnecessary (similarily on the BM 530).

One problem that both of these knifes suffer from is that the linerlock (where you are supposed to disengage it)
sticks out too much from the handle. This creates pressure points for the forefinger. Although if this was
filed down it might make it more difficult for the lock to be disengaged. Contrast this with the almost flush AFCK liners.

As for the clips, I'd say the end of the Gunstock clip is too angular, but it is pretty good in other respects. The
Vex's supposedly ergonomic clip has issues too, but I'll investigate this more later.

At 4.7 ounzes, it is the weight of the Gunstock folder and a Native (sans clip):

benchmade1.jpg
benchmade2.jpg


AFCK, Gunstock folder, Vex:
benchmade3.jpg




benchmade4.jpg


benchmade5.jpg


A look at the clips:


Trying to show the hollow profile of the Gunstock folder:
benchmade7.jpg
 
kel_aa said:
I can afford better knives, but I bought this one [Vex] mainly because the high grind and the hole opening suggested that this might be an interesting alternative to some Spyderco models [especially the partial-ground one].
I like seeing knives like these reviewed since they're in a price range that most people can afford, and even a lot of knife-nuts will choose to use while their safe queens sit safely. :) Sadly, too, it seems like the higher end Benchmades (and even Spydercos) are becoming more and more fluff all the time, really not that interesting if you're into working tools.

Hope to see some work with these knives similar to what you've posted before, with the photos and extended discussion it's very valuable.

kel_aa said:
I bought this one [Fecas/NRA] to try out Benchmade's supposedly hard Aus8 ....
Wondering if you've had a chance to use this one enough to form an impression of Benchmade's AUS8? I've never had a blade in this steel I was really pleased with, and have come to realize it's almost certainly because they've all been run too soft.
 
From photographic examination with a low power microscope, I measured the Vex edge to be 0.52 mm or 0.021" thick at the height of the bevel, and the Fecas Gunstock folder to be 0.49 mm or 0.019". This seems to be a standard thickness. But to put that into comparsion, hacksaw blades minus the kerf are about 0.02" thick.

The edge angle (average over the bevel) was 19 degrees per side for the Vex and 21 degrees per side for the Fecas. The edge angle was arrived at from trigonometry (again from the microscope photos); I'll note that the Fecas edge has a slight hollow.

As far as real work, I haven't gotten around to that yet. I'll post my findings in two weeks.

Sodak said:
Sadly, too, it seems like the higher end Benchmades (and even Spydercos) are becoming more and more fluff all the time, really not that interesting if you're into working tools.

Those are my feelings toward CRKT. As for the newer Benchmades, the Skirmish is really not my style, the Rukus looks more interesting, but it looks like the handle is really narrow at the butt end. From the 2007 catalogue the standout to me is the Dejavooo. I'm only lukewarm about the S30V, but the flat grind, hole opening, and titanium liners really appeal to me. It looks to me like a real Advanced Folding Camping Knife. Less tactical, more utility from the more sensible grind. I'm going to have to get my hands on one of those.

As for Spydercos, I am turned off by the partial grind models of which there are so many- Jess Horn, Natives, Centofantes, Byrds, Delica/Endura, Salts, Police... It'll take a lot of other attributes for me to buy those models (Spyderco's unqiue use of H1 for instance, or the affordable S30V Natives). Let's see what Spyderco brings out for 2007.
 
Those are my feelings toward CRKT. As for the newer Benchmades, the Skirmish is really not my style, the Rukus looks more interesting, but it looks like the handle is really narrow at the butt end. From the 2007 catalogue the standout to me is the Dejavooo. I'm only lukewarm about the S30V, but the flat grind, hole opening, and titanium liners really appeal to me. It looks to me like a real Advanced Folding Camping Knife. Less tactical, more utility from the more sensible grind. I'm going to have to get my hands on one of those.

As for Spydercos, I am turned off by the partial grind models of which there are so many- Jess Horn, Natives, Centofantes, Byrds, Delica/Endura, Salts, Police... It'll take a lot of other attributes for me to buy those models (Spyderco's unqiue use of H1 for instance, or the affordable S30V Natives). Let's see what Spyderco brings out for 2007.
Very similar to my feelings ... I've been looking for a couple new folders, and seems almost all of them have some major drawbacks. With Benchmade, it would be nice if they designed the thumbstuds and opening holes on their higher-end knives to work better (I assume whoever designed the Mini-Skirmish has big, round wart on the end of his thumb that fits the chamfered opening hole :) ) And I agree totally with the partial grinds on the Spydercos ... as Cliff has often pointed out, the only reason for doing that is because it's cheap, yet many of the knives aren't cheap.
 
When the factory edge began to dull, I wasn't going to go out of my way to match the +20 degree edge. I went to
straight to edge thinning, directly on the hollow, with 1/2 a broken benchstone and a small 325 grit DMT diamond lap.

The result is a big wide relief bevel on the hollow and a 15 degree edge formed on the Sharpmaker. But the edge has
a stubborn burr, so I cut in the stone and resharpen. Able to get a clean edge the second time. The first "test" of this
knife had occured when I borrow it to a coworker. I come back to find him steeling a pair of sisscors with my knife.
"It makes both the knife and the sisscors sharper. I'm a hunter, I know what I'm doing."

The edge was completely rolled and was stubborn again, and I didn't like the amount of material I had to sharpen to
remove this damaged steel. So back to the diamond lap. In all maybe 3 hours were spent filing the edge while
watching television. The edge is now 0.2 mm or 0.008" thick at the top of the 15 degree edge. The primary grind is
about 4 degrees, but a very small portion of that is convexed slighlty where it meets the edge. With this geometry it
can cut a carrot through its longitudinal axis for instance, as opposed to just cracking off a piece.

As for the steel, it sharpens well with an easily manageable burr. But I had an recent experience that I would
like other opinions on. I batoned the knife through the bone of a large (10"?) turkey leg. I am not opposed to smashing
the bone with a rock; this was just a test of the working boundaries. Basically the knife was laid onto the bone, and
wacked with a piece of wood. The first wack just scores the bone, and two or three subsequent wacks were required to
complete the breakage. The lock was engaged, but as the batoning was right on top of the cut, no signifcant stress
was put on the lock. Two cuts were made. When I examined the edge, there was a fairly large chip deeper than the
edge. As well two areas of rippling were visible (no visible compression, just lateral deformation). I batoned through
another bone (a smaller one) with a thinned Rucksack, and could also detect some rippling.

I did carve a needle from a fragment of the bone. The tip of the folder was used as a chisel and drill without damage.
The knife could shave off big flakes of bone, a large improvement over the 2" Jaguar folder I had last summer. The
edge was dulled but not damaged by this.

So I would like to discuss whether 15 degrees to 0.008" is not enough steel to be batoning through a sizeable turkey
legbone. The knife starts off straight, but as bone starts to crack in odd ways, there is lateral stress. Is the rippling
a good clear warning that this is too much? If I am willing to accept the rippling to accomplish my task, how does one
explain the large chip? How would the scale of forces compare between a ripple and a large chip like that? Would it
be a local flaw in the steel? Does anyone think this should be covered under warranty?

To expand on my earlier comment on the jimping on the linerlock, its discomfort doesn't factor in real use (scaling
a fish, cutting through its spine, deboning turkey legs, cutting vegetables, cutting strapping...). It is just only
when you grip it very hard it becomes sharp to your finger. The clip (held by two screws asymetrically mounted)
also shows a tendency to wiggle and loosen.

My thoughts overall: This is a "unfinished" blade with in a second-rate handle (The pointy gunstock profile that forms
the butt of the profile is undoubtable unnesscessary and unergonomic.) You know Fecas/Benchmade compromised
usability to give the knife more flair and style. I say the blade is "unfinished" because it is unexceptional until you put
some work into it. The hollow grind is just inviting you to do so, providing you with an easy grinding guide, decreases
tremendously the amount of material you have to remove, and allows most of the blade surface to remain unscratched.
I normally don't do major surgery on new tactical knives, but this is a good combination of price, steel, and grind geometry
to do so.

As far as comparable blades with potential, knives with hollow grinds like the Spyderco Byrds, Jess Horn, Centofante, etc
can be taken to aggressive profiles as well. But they will still have large areas of flat remaining, unattractive to me both
asthetically and perceived performance-wise. But prehaps the Bryds should be excepted from the last statement, as it is
simiarily very very inexpensive for a nice workable steel.


Photograph Section
--------

In the past, some of my photos my have appeared really dark on CRT's. If that is the case with these pictures please let me
know and I'll try to adjust them.

Reprofiled knife (15 degrees to 0.008") next to stock knife (21 degrees to 0.02"). Which one is prettier?

regrind.jpg


Turkey bone that damaged the knife:

turkeyleg.jpg


Chip and ripples in edge:

fecasdamage.jpg


Magnified shots of the chip. The exposed steel surface is made of little round clusters. Are these the actual grains?

fecaschip.jpg
 


The 15 degree value was as is from the Sharpmaker. The 21 degree value was arrived at using equation 2. a and d are half edge thickness and half edge angles.
 
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