BESS Tester, How To Get Under 100?

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NorCalQ

Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
51
So I've been using a WE and just switched to a TSProf K03, which I really like. I've only done 2 knives so far. At 15* to 18* per side, the edges cut phonebook paper very smoothly and I can split individual hairs. Also, I used my Edge On Up and got in the 125 to 150 range. I use a balsa strop with 3.5u paste. Any tips on how to get down in under the 100 reading of sharpness?
 
NorCalQ said:
So I've been using a WE and just switched to a TSProf K03, which I really like. I've only done 2 knives so far. At 15* to 18* per side, the edges cut phonebook paper very smoothly and I can split individual hairs. Also, I used my Edge On Up and got in the 125 to 150 range. I use a balsa strop with 3.5u paste. Any tips on how to get down in under the 100 reading of sharpness?
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Not enough info about how you use the WE and grit stones and such. But the EOU is for push cutting tests, so a polished blade would shine. I use leather strops with 4u, 2u, and plain leather.
 
000Robert said:
Not enough info about how you use the WE and grit stones and such. But the EOU is for push cutting tests, so a polished blade would shine. I use leather strops with 4u, 2u, and plain leather.
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Thanks Robert. Good info. I use the TSProf K03 now. I've been going with 3.5u, but will try 2.5u, 1u and .5u to see if can get lower numbers. Not a huge deal, as sharp is sharp, but it's fun to try to get lower #s. Thanks for the help.
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Ok, that blade is nicely polished. Now we would have to look at your sharpening techniques and stone progressions. I have stropping handles for my Wicked Edge 130, but I normally just strop freehand.
 
Right now, I'm stroking with the weight of the strop and apparatus alone. I'm currently at 15*. Maybe I should add a bit a pressure, go further than 3.5u and see what happens.
 
chalby said:
Why would a convex edge get a lower score?
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I didn't say that it would, I said it probably would. Check it out and see. I personally don't care much for convex edges. I prefer a flat V that can be easily sharpened freehand if need be.
 
000Robert said:
I didn't say that it would, I said it probably would. Check it out and see. I personally don't care much for convex edges. I prefer a flat V that can be easily sharpened freehand if need be.
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YMMV, but it doesn't seem logical to me that a convex edge would score better, that's why I ask why you think it would "probably" be better?

On topic though, I think using a progression of strops is a good idea for getting a sharper edge. Check out Michael Christy's videos on youtube and see how he does it for an example.
 
chalby said:
YMMV, but it doesn't seem logical to me that a convex edge would score better, that's why I ask why you think it would "probably" be better?

On topic though, I think using a progression of strops is a good idea for getting a sharper edge. Check out Michael Christy's videos on youtube and see how he does it for an example.
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Because the edge is rounded rather than having a 'V' angled edge. People more knowledgeable than me say that convex edges cut better. I like a more toothy edge at 800 to 1000 grit and rarely polish an edge.
 
000Robert said:
Because the edge is rounded rather than having a 'V' angled edge. People more knowledgeable than me say that convex edges cut better. I like a more toothy edge at 800 to 1000 grit and rarely polish an edge.
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Razors and microtomes don’t have convex edges. Single bevel edges are the most acute and therefore the sharpest (geometrically speaking). They make the most uniform slices. V bevels with small included angles are next in the sharpness pecking order. Convex edges (more obtuse) are strong because there is more meat behind the micro edge. If your cut work involves changing directions while cutting, convex edges are the ticket. All IMHO.
 
000Robert said:
Because the edge is rounded rather than having a 'V' angled edge. People more knowledgeable than me say that convex edges cut better. I like a more toothy edge at 800 to 1000 grit and rarely polish an edge.
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tiguy7 said:
Razors and microtomes don’t have convex edges. Single bevel edges are the most acute and therefore the sharpest (geometrically speaking). They make the most uniform slices. V bevels with small included angles are next in the sharpness pecking order. Convex edges (more obtuse) are strong because there is more meat behind the micro edge. If your cut work involves changing directions while cutting, convex edges are the ticket. All IMHO.
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Basically what tiguy7 said. I'm happy to be corrected by someone more knowledgeable than me, but to look at it in a simplistic way, a convex edge is good for putting material behind the edge thus increasing toughness or edge stability at the expense of edge retention and overall sharpness. Compare it to a hollow ground edge where you will get better edge retention and cutting ability at the expense of the edge stability and toughness. Of course a hollow ground edge is going to be pretty rare but that is just my understanding in theory.

If your aim is to get a good bess score, I would say you need to make the edge as acute as possible for the steel and refine it as much as possible with high grits and polish for push cutting ability. Again just my understanding I could be wrong.
 
This is not my opinion. Just stating how someone does things. There is a company in Sydney Australia, the person who runs this company is very well known in the sharpening world, he used to post on forums under the name of Wootz. The company name is knife grinders, a lot of his clients are owners of high end customs who send their knives to him for sharpening, he gets knives down to 5 on the bess machine, he swears by Kangaroo Tail Strops, he finishes most of his knives on these. He does also sell them, so that may be a conflict, but i don't think so, his reputation is of too high a standing. He does a lot of experimenting with different strop compound mixtures. I think one was green compound mixed with a diamond paste, he said he had a lot of success with this, but the Kangaroo Tail Leather Strop gives him really good results.
 
cudgee said:
This is not my opinion. Just stating how someone does things. There is a company in Sydney Australia, the person who runs this company is very well known in the sharpening world, he used to post on forums under the name of Wootz. The company name is knife grinders, a lot of his clients are owners of high end customs who send their knives to him for sharpening, he gets knives down to 5 on the bess machine, he swears by Kangaroo Tail Strops, he finishes most of his knives on these. He does also sell them, so that may be a conflict, but i don't think so, his reputation is of too high a standing. He does a lot of experimenting with different strop compound mixtures. I think one was green compound mixed with a diamond paste, he said he had a lot of success with this, but the Kangaroo Tail Leather Strop gives him really good results.
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I saw one of his videos. Amazing sharpness, but done by a real pro who's life is sharpening. That said, it makes one strive, doesn't it? I took a look at his site and it looks as though they use nothing but Tormek machines. I have had a Tormek for years, but have never been able to produce consistent results. I think it would take me many hours of use to achieve the consistency of manual sharpeners like TSProf.
 
tiguy7 said:
Razors and microtomes don’t have convex edges. Single bevel edges are the most acute and therefore the sharpest (geometrically speaking). They make the most uniform slices. V bevels with small included angles are next in the sharpness pecking order. Convex edges (more obtuse) are strong because there is more meat behind the micro edge. If your cut work involves changing directions while cutting, convex edges are the ticket. All IMHO.
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You're probably right. It seems like rounded edges would slice better. But for cutting the filament we are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch anyway so the more acute edge will probably be better no matter what the type of edge is.
 
NorCalQ said:
I saw one of his videos. Amazing sharpness, but done by a real pro who's life is sharpening. That said, it makes one strive, doesn't it? I took a look at his site and it looks as though they use nothing but Tormek machines. I have had a Tormek for years, but have never been able to produce consistent results. I think it would take me many hours of use to achieve the consistency of manual sharpeners like TSProf.
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You are correct, he does use Tormek machines, he does a lot of sharpening for butchers and meat workers, they would be the bulk of his work to pay his bills, i was just trying to highlight his finishing methods for edge refinement.:thumbsup::)
 
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cudgee said:
You are correct, he does use Tormek machines, he does a lot of sharpening for butchers and meat workers, they would be the bulk of his work to pay his bills, i was just trying to highlight his finishing methods for edge refinement.:thumbsup::)
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I'd love to know his finishing methods.
 
000Robert said:
You're probably right. It seems like rounded edges would slice better. But for cutting the filament we are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch anyway so the more acute edge will probably be better no matter what the type of edge is.
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The more I think about this the more I come to the conclusion: "it depends". My original thinking was that if you had a secondary bevel of the same size, then convexing the edge would impede cutting performance because there is more material to get in the way of slicing. So if you took the convex edge and took material off to make a V bevel, then the V bevel would presumably cut better. But if you took the V bevel and took material off at the shoulder and some off near the edge then you would effectively improve the cutting performance. Both are convex edges.

Anyway, thanks for providing food for thought. It isn't a simple one or the other.
 
chalby said:
The more I think about this the more I come to the conclusion: "it depends". My original thinking was that if you had a secondary bevel of the same size, then convexing the edge would impede cutting performance because there is more material to get in the way of slicing. So if you took the convex edge and took material off to make a V bevel, then the V bevel would presumably cut better. But if you took the V bevel and took material off at the shoulder and some off near the edge then you would effectively improve the cutting performance. Both are convex edges.

Anyway, thanks for providing food for thought. It isn't a simple one or the other.
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And it gives us a good excuse to play around and check it out. I'll try to check into it myself in the coming months but I have a bunch of leather sheaths to work on.
 
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