Best 12 ga. Shells for Home defense?

D

drjones

Joined
Sep 6, 2000
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What 12 ga. shotshells do you recommend for home defense? I live in a HOUSE, not an apt. where I have to worry about overpenetration. (At least not as much!)

As much as I'd LOVE to get those hollowpoint slugs, I think that'd be just a BIT of overkill!

00 Buck? Birdshot? What do you guys keep in your 12?

drjones
 
You don't list where you live so, I'll make a general statement considering what season of the year it is and what part of the country you live should be taken into consideration. In summertime, a bad guy wearning a T-shirt versus a biker in heavy leathers or a snow bunny bundled up will dictate different penetration needs.

Next, why in the world would anyone consider birdshot? I just don't understand that one. I've listened to a lot of totally uninformed people argue vehemently that birdshot would take take down a drug crazed Godzilla beast if shot at room distances.

If you can live with the penetration of a 12 gauge slug, you should consider using a rifle. A soft lead projectile isn't what I would want in a life threatening situation at room distance. Maybe a 45-70 or 44Mag lever action Marlin or, a nice Belgian FAL, even considered a 50AE conversion for my AR-15.

That pretty much leaves Buckshot. I want really hard shot so, lead is out. There are several different premium loads to choose from and, I have had good results with Copper-plated Buckshot. There are other hard and heavy materials to consider but, I haven't had enough time to work with them myself so, Copper plated it is.

Now, Buckshot size? I consider individual pellet weight, diameter and, penetration ability. Nothing smaller then #4 or larger then 000. In areas where I am concerned with reducing over penetration risk, #4's which will still be a threat on the other side of a sheetrock wall but, less so then large Buckshot. With 41 Pellets, you also get a lot of coverage and penetration is adequate for bad guys not wearing heavy clothing. I am now willing to give up some of the pellet coverage (count) to get a larger heavier deeper penetration pellet and have settled on 00 after trying out #1's.

Now, power behind the pellets. Magnum? Non-Magnum? Reduced recoil? 3 inch or 2 3/4 ( maybe 3 1/2's :) )? You have to pick one you can really shoot well. Not flinch with, fighting recoil, etc. Can you shoot it, keep your eyes open and on the target?

Finally, how many loads have you patterned at various distances with this life saving tool?
 
Thanks Sid. Also, is there anything wrong with mixing several different loads? i.e.; first shot a slug, second buckshot, third bird, etc...

Anything wrong with doing this? Anything RIGHT with doing it?

drjones
 
Drjones,
I think it would depend on the type of shotgun you are using. Pump or auto?? I believe with a pump you could load whatever. Bean bag(less than lethal option), bird shot, buckshot, slugs or how ever. With an auto you might want to stick with one specific load. Someone else will chime in with more info. :)


Blades
 
Was that 2 shots or 3? Do I have slug next or was that saw dust for door hinges? :confused: In the heat of the moment, with your heart racing in a life threatening scenario in which you have tried to use lethal force on another human being, do you really think you will accurately count your shots and know which load is coming up next? What happens when you shoot your shotgun like rifle thinking a slug is up only to find out you got a good spread on Buckshot and covered the bad guy and several others?

Pick a good load and stick with it. If you are planning double taps with a shotgun alternating loads because you don't know whether you are after a bird or buck, you have bigger problems then you realize.

Lets say you are fully loaded with an appropriate size quality Buckshot and decide you need to reach out and touch someone at distance with a slug, do a tactical load exchange. With practice, you can take a combat shotgun with a round in the chamber, eject just that one round (preserving the rest of load) and, replace it with a specialty load (saw dust, slug, etc.) and move on.

Pick something you have confidense in, that you have proven meets your needs, and learn how it really behaves when you use it. Then execute as you have trained. Don't add complication and variables that are hard to control and manage into a situation that will be extremely stressful - this will only make it harder for you to execute what you have already learned and know how to do. Great execution with a sub-optimal load is better then being confused and executing poorly because you are over loaded and stressed out trying to decide which load to use and working tactics on the fly. K I S S and execute with known proven gear.
 
Blades,

In a less then lethal confrontation, walk (or run) away. Let the Police take care of the problem and save yourself the grief and heartache (and possibly civil and criminal liability).

If you, as a civilian, are using bean bags on someone, you are going to spend a lot of time with lawyers. Less then lethal options should always be used if they are available (which to me, means leaving the scene and calling the professionals in) but, if that is not an option and you are forced take potentially lethal action to save your life, use the best life takers you can get to end the situation decisively and effectively.

Whether you are using a nice Remington 870, a tricked out Remington 1187, a Benelli, etc., know your gear, what it will do and, learn how to make it perform effectively if it is ever called upon. Skill and determination will carry you though with adequate gear. You don't have to have every gadget and trick to be effective if the time comes where you have to perform to save your life or that of someone you care about.
 
Thanks guys, for your answers so far...

To answer your questions: my gun is a Mossberg pump, no stock, just pistol-grip. Don't know barrel length or choke; I don't have it just yet...

This is for HOME DEFENSE, meaning it will be used (well, hopefully NEVER!) inside my home. I just don't know a whole lot about the different loads, which is why I'm asking.

Probably just end up with 00 Buck, or whatever my buddy at the store recommends most...

Thanks!
drjones
 
Given the fact that the typical OO buckshot shell only has 9 pellets, I would go for anything in the turkey load department. That gives you a whole lotta pellets of significant size(generally #2 shot) with plenty of kick, but not something that will go through a wall easily.
 
Is this a shotgun you haven't bought yet?

Since it is pistol grip, definitely get the REDUCED RECOIL LAW ENFORCEMENT loads. Hopefully, it will be choked improved cylinder or, at worst, modified.

Pattern it against a B-27 and see what it does! You will probably find you end up wanting something along the lines of #4 Buckshot.
 
...having just read the thread, but Sid beat me too it...

First off, ditch the pistol grip if it's the plasic variety...it could break or sprain your wrist. If you have to have a short grip, buy a Mossberg wood stock and shorten it by 5 inches, or cut it down to just the pistol grip. (The grip angle will be 45', not 90', and will save your wrist...allowing for follow up shots if needed)

This stock modification should be legal as long as you don't shorten the barrel as well...check your local laws. It's ugly, but it works.

For shot, the reduced recoil Federal and Winchester OO are the way to go if you feel you need Buck shot. I prefer Federal's High Base Extended Range #4 'Turkey' loads though...27 copper plated BB's per shot.

I also use a 'Speed Feed' full stock on my Mossberg, and keep 4 rnds. of Remington's HP Sabot's loaded in it...just in case. :)

YMMV

Mel
 
I keep a Remington 870 as my home defense firearm. After experimenting with various loads on common barriers I settled on Federal Classic 12-gauge #4 Buck Tactical. I think it represents a good compromise of penetration vs over-penetration. The reduced recoil makes for quicker follow-up shots. It also patterns even and tight out to 50 yards from my 18" barrel.

--Bob Q
 
Originally posted by Sid Post
If you can live with the penetration of a 12 gauge slug, you should consider using a rifle. A soft lead projectile isn't what I would want in a life threatening situation at room distance. Maybe a 45-70 or 44Mag lever action Marlin or, a nice Belgian FAL, even considered a 50AE conversion for my AR-15.
Click to expand...

Can you explain this a bit more? What is wrong with a 12 gauge slug at room distances? I can see where you might be concerned that a 12 gauge slug wouldn't penetrate hard barriers, but inside most houses I wouldn't think there would be too many hard barriers. Am I missing the point?

I would think an 18" barrel, full stock and lightweight slugs would be a fairly reasonable selection, perferably with a SF weapons light.

-john
 
that the slug 'will' penetrate...and so if you've already determined that such overpenetration isn't a problem for you...then you might as well use a rifle.

That's the way I read it anyway...

D.B.C.
 
I prefer the LE style reduced recoil loads for faster follow up shots and reduced penetration.

For 12ga I generally load the gun with Federal Tactical Loads with #4 buck, with a sidesaddle full of Federal Tactical #00 buck and 2 Remington Low Recoil slugs. (Easy color code; red buckshot / green slugs)

The #4 gives a little less penetration indoors, and the slugs and #00 allow for better range/penetration if I should need to follow someone out of the house for any reason (VERY few reasons that I would, but there are a couple). If i could get some of the Federal Tactical #000 i would replace the #00 with it.

For 20ga I generally shoot #2 in 3 inch shells or #3 in 2 3/4 inch.

I don't own a .410 but if I did I would load it with some of the S&B #00 buckshot or Winchester/ADC #000 loads. I would go with the big pellets here because you are just not sending that many of the small ones downrange.

If I was in an apartment or townhouse I would find a couple of boxes of hi-brass #2 birdshot. Federal loads these in their Home Defense / Personal Protection loads, but I think that I would want those little pellets going as fast as I could get them, and then carefully lay out my fields of fire and rearrange the furniture as needed.
 
My Winchester 1200 is loaded with #1 Federal buckshot. That is a good home defense load.
 
Guys, I read in some magazine a while ago that shotgun slugs are quite devastating. I mean, a 1 0z. chunk of lead fired from a shotgun? How can that NOT do major damage?

And HOW would it be possible for ANYONE, regardless of whatever drugs they may be on, to "take one and still stay in the fight?"

Doesn't make sense to me...

drjones
 
thats a whole separate question...

You might want to try the 'Terminal Ballistics' forum at tacticalforums.com for your answer...

The bottom line is, unless the central nervous system is shut down, (brain or brain stem), some people will keep fighting...

Big disruptive holes to a major artery are a distant second...

Anything else, and your just pissing the madman off...

D.B.C.
 
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