Best angle for soft traditional steels

[pinnah]

Many traditionals use softer steels that are hardened in the 56 Rc range, give or take. If I understand things right (and I usually don't) this includes: Case CV, Case SS, Opinel INOX, Opinel Carbone, and Victorinox INOX.

What's your favorite or recommended edge angle for blades with these comparatively softer steels. I'm particularly interested in whittling and heavier wood craft, so edge folding is an issue.

Mods, if you really think this is best for the Maintenance forum, that's OK but I thought it best to start here in the hopes of finding more people with experience with these traditional steels.

 

[knarfeng]

I think it's where it is. I agree that most folks in the Maintenance forum aren't fussing with the alloys that we fuss with here in Traditional.


Since I mostly use a Sharpmaker these days, I have the choice of 30° inclusive or 40° inclusive. For alloys hardened to 54-56HRC, I use 40°. I actually think that optimum would be more like 45° inclusive. 22.5° per side is the traditional edge angle.

edited to add:
The more oblique angle puts more steel supporting the edge. Rockwell hardness equates to strength. Harder alloy is stronger and will not deform as easily as softer alloy.

 

[black mamba]

I have found softer stainless steels to be even more in need of larger edge angles than finer grained carbon steels. Even older and lower HRc rated Case CV knives will take a nice edge at a lower angle than Tru-Sharp will for me. At less than 40° inclusive, the burr seems to be especially hard to get rid of with stainless steels under 57-58.

 

[NMpops]

On my Case and SAKs I prefer to keep the angle they came with. I use a bench stone and free hand it.

 

[avoidspam]

I convex all my knives using the mousemat method. When you make a convex edge bevel you are rounding the bevel and blending it with the blade grind. I too do a lot of woodworking and convexing helps immensly by reducing resistance. What you end up with is an edge similar to what you'd see on most older knives that have been sherpened on a stone. I tend to go for a finer edge than most of my knives came with, the only blade I've had roll was a GEC Muscrat blade which was very thin to start. One of the nice things about these steels is that rolling isn't the end of the world, simply work a steeper angle back onto the blade. A quick micro bevel will suffice then keep that angle with each sharpen and that'll become your edge bevel

Sharpening is fun part of knives

 

[lutejones]

I have to disagree with you this time guys, I found out that for woodworking around 20-25 inclusive angle is a huge improvement in cutting efficiency and performance. Besides the softer Hrc aloud us to quickly repair a damage edge, only with an strop you can go a long way.

The way to prevent rolling is improving the technique avoiding lateral force applied to the cutting edge, instead of rising the angle from my point of view
Even stout Scandi bushcraft knives are around 12,5-15 degrees per side and you can do some serious roughing out with them. If you have to go harder than that I personally prefer a small axe or a saw.

In my #62 whittler which is what I use most for whittling the two small blades are sharpened very close to a zero grind I reground the primary edge to thin it out, and then rised the angle a bit for the secondary edge, here's a pic

Mateo

 

[J D Wijbenga]

@Lutejones: Nice job! And, I agree.

I have no problem going just as low on my DoukDouk as on a knife with a harder steel. And that is <30degrees.

To be sure. There are no hard rules as it depends on how and what you cut. You can go very low and if you find out it is to much give it a slightly steeper angle micro bevel. Listen to what the blade tells you!

 

[jackknife]

On my Case and SAKs I prefer to keep the angle they came with. I use a bench stone and free hand it.

:thumbup::thumbup:

Since I pretty much copy the original angle free hand I can't begin to tell you what angle I sharpen at. But then I free hand all my sharpening jobs on all my cutting tools.

Carl.

 

[9blades]

Personally I try for about 18 on each side (36 total) ad finish at a lower grit so I get a toothy edge.
Works well for me.

 

[Curtis_Lowe]

I freehand on a Norton Crystolon, so its around 15-18 degrees per side. The optimum angle really depends on your own needs.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

30° (sometimes less) on everything I have; 'soft' steel or not. I've come to the conclusion that the thinner geometry makes all the difference in cutting performance, and if it needs a little more maintenance as a result, it's worth it. Wider edge angles don't cut near as well, especially wide V-bevels in tougher material like wood (they bind up). Thinner geometry will continue to cut well, even after the 'shaving sharpness' goes away. Unless you're slicing tomatos, there's little to lose. 'Soft' steels are ridiculously easy to maintain with some intelligently-chosen compound on a strop, and the wider bevels of a more acute edge are that much easier to 'feel' on the hones or strops.

(Edit: the suggestion of a microbevel is a good one, and it's an easy way to add a little more durability to a 'thin' edge, without giving up the slicing advantages of that thin edge.)

(Edit#2: I went a very, very long time living with the 'factory' thick(ish) edges on my knives, and realized that 'soft' steel is just that. Even at a wider edge angle, the steel is still prone to deformation. Less edge rolling, but they still dent/compress/flatten at the edge. When that happens, the thick edge geometry gets immediately thicker and blunter, and these edges perform little better than butter knives at that point. This is why I've chosen to stick with thinner edge angles. They will still dull, but also perform better when they get dull. Also easier to restore to shaving sharpness. )


David

 

[richstag]

The most thinned angle that you can do that holds up well to your daily uses.

 

[markpmc]

I use a lansky and shoot for about 20% on both GEC 1095 and Case stainless. Both hold well for me at that angle requiring the occasional touch up w/ a fine stone.