best budget stainless steel

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W.T. Beck

Joined
Jul 9, 2001
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Here's a question for the steel experts: Of the lowest priced stainless steels for knife blades, is there one that is better than the others? For example, is 420HC any better than 440A, or AUS6?
I am wondering because it seems alot of the manufacturers of lower priced stainless knives have switched to 420HC.
 
I'm no expert, but can give some observations from experience. Of the three steels mentioned, I would rate 420HC superior to the others. It seems to take and hold a better edge. Next would be AUS 6, wth 440A last. I've never seen a 440A blade that would cut very long.
In rust resistance, the only one I've had rust is AUS 6.
I've never broken any of them.

420HC is actually a pretty decent steel for an EDC beater.

Edge geometry and heat treat will play a major role in the performance of any steel.

Paul
 
Are you wanting to buy a knife...or buy some steel. For the price, 440C cant be beat.
 
just dont buy into the 420j2 'nasa grade steel' (as advertized by our good friends on the knife collectors show)
 
Hello Tom,

I am not wanting to buy either. I was just curious if there was any differences, since alot of the big manufacturers are choosing 420HC.
 
WT,
There is another reason that American companies are switching from 440A to 420HC. Its now almost impossible to get 440A in the form that we need...coil. One of the things that reduces the cost of a knife using 440A or 420HC is the fact that it can be A. blanked into shape[ as compared to laser cut], and B. That you can buy it by the "coil", so that it will feed into our high speed blanking machines. These factors affect the price at least as much as the actual cost of the steel.

For some reason, the steel mills around the country quit making 440A in coil form. We went looking for a replacement, and after alot of trial and error with the heat treatment[we can get it to 58RC without it being too brittle], settled on 420HC. We find it very comparable to the old 440A we used to use. Some things slightly better, some features not quite as good,....but basically very comparable.

I can't comment of AUS6, as it is oriental steel and not used in US production. Personally, I find its performance very similar to 420HC.

I hope this helps!
 
Thanks for the explaination, Mr. Fennel,

It sounds like there isn't much difference between the stampable stainless steels - just a matter of availability for the manufacturers.
 
Will, a question, does Sandvik 12C27 count as a budget stainless steel? I know a custom maker who are using that steel as their preferred economical stainless steel (over 440C, ATS34/CPM154). I was trying to do a web search to compare costs, but struck out.

Is Sandvik 12C27 priced competitively compared to the lower carbon 440 series? My impression is that 12C27 is relatively easy to work, heat-treats easily, and make a great blade balancing toughness, hardness, wear resistance, and stain-resistance very nicely. This maker also uses 420V, but at considerably higher cost to the customer, not only because of higher material costs, but mostly due to significantly more labor time needed to grind and finish the blade.

Do american manufacturers ever use Sandvik 12C27 or equivalents?

Para
 
I want to echo Mr. Mayo in saying that 440C is a great steel for the $$$. I have no problems in buying and using a knife that uses 440C. Remember that at one time it was the standard for knife steels.

Of course I believe that heat treat and edge geometry are at least as important to performance as which steel.
 
Agreed. But today the bar is a LOT higher.....I would look at 440C with proper heat treat as the bottom of the barrel for a knife (IMHO)
Talonite, Stellite 6K, 440V, 420V, 3V, BG-42...Damascus with D2 in the middle..........the list is seemingly endless of HIGH PERFORMANCE steels...........Why bother with anything else??
Remember.......you want it to CUT!!
 
Hello Paracelsus,

You aren't the first I have seen refer to Sandvik 12C27 as a superior stainless steel, although knives with blades made from it are usually not very expensive. I think most of the Scandinavian knives are made from it, except for the Fallknivens. No one says bad things about Scandinavian knives, so the steel must be pretty good.

I think the Kabar Next Generation knives are made from Sandvik 12C27, except for the model with a D2 blade. A.G. Russell offers a Fox brand knife made from Sandvik.

Shootist16, I've noticed some controversy over 440C. Some put it in the high grade category, while others compare it to AUS8. All I can say is that I see alot of custom knives made from 440C, but none from AUS8.
 
Hello Mr. Mayo,

Could you offer any specifics to compare 440C to better steels? For example, is there a percentage of better edge retention in ATS-34 that you could cite? I'm just curious as to the actual differences.
 
I gotta stir the original question just a bit. The price of the steel is not always related to the price of the knife.

In some cases where a steel is in fad and hard to get ahold of, it can tip prices upwards a bit. But generally, the steel price isn't what impacts the price of a knife.

When ATS34 was the "must have" steel, Gerber and Spyderco were putting out inexpensive knives in that steel right along with the expensive heavy hitters at the time.

Now if I'm interpreting the intent of the original question correctly, then perhaps you're trying to narrow down your choice of inexpensive knives by choosing the one with the best steel. Personally, I'd choose the knife that has the best fit, feel, and functionality to your hand and go with it. Nothing beats a well made knife.

The differences between today's "now" stainless steels and yesterday's stainless steels can be speculative at best. Trade one strength for one weakness, and you have a new alloy. Better? Depends on what your criteria are.
 
In my experience it displays about 80% of ATS-34 performance as to pure edge holding, for ex. cutting hemp rope. It is less brittle, more rust resistant and noticeably easier to sharpen. Speaking about ease of sharpening I do not have in my mind the situation when I'm sitting comfortably near my working bench and using SPYDERCO Sharpmaker or DMT Diamond Whetstones. These tools cut each steel equally easy, the rest is just the question of sharpening skills. But if you are in wilderness and your only sharpening tool is smooth stone what you have found in the stream - it is greatly probable, that you couldn't sharpen your ATS-34, 154CM, CPM 440V or BG-42 blade at all. The 440C, AUS-8 or 12C27 Sandvik blades can be sharpened in this situation without major problems. This is the main reason why I would choose these steels for outdoors knife over modern extreme steels every time.

One advantage more over extreme steels - 440C can be fine blanked to shape instead of laser cutting. I don't know why this property is practically never mentioned here but I saw with my own eyes 440C blade blanking when I have visited BÖKER factory.

I must disagree with Tom about bar raising. Nor things to cut with the knife have changed neither man's abilities to cut or to sharpen. Yes, today there are a lot of super-modern hi-tech materials what could be used for knife making if the sizeable increase of single property - pure edge hold - is required. But no one coin has the single side. The cost of this modern material use is pretty high and this measures not only in money. But it is the topic for the separate discussion...
So could be used and should be used is not the same, for me at least...

Why custom knifemakers use 440C and not AUS-8? Honestly I don't know... In my experience these steels display very close level of performance and properties - both are well balanced steels. Maybe the reason is an economics? AUS-8 is Japanese steel, maybe it is unprofitable to get it in Europe or America in small quantities for custom making?
 
Mr. Mayo I disagree. Mankind is still cutting the same things now that he cut with a knife 5, 10 50 ,200, 1000 years ago. If the cost of these "high performance steels" came down them more people would use them. If there were new harder things to cut more people would use them.
 
Hello Happy Camper,

The original intent of my question was just curiosity. I had noticed that alot of the big U.S. knifemakers have recently started using 420HC, and dropped use of 440A, 425M, etc. I wondered what was the reason for this, and if the use of 420HC was supposed to be an improvement for the consumer.

Thanks Mr. Mitin, for your discussion of 440C. I had read many rather vague or general comments about it, but no quantifiable statistics such as 80 percent as good edge retention in comparison to ATS-34.
 
I clicked on the BFC,FAQ, steel link that the Magician put up, once in, I clicked on the Malex Steel composition site and found it to be a Russian language porno site. Not complaning mind you, just p!ssed I cant read it.;)
 
One more question for Mr. Mitin, on the subject of ease of sharpening and survival knives. I have the impression that many people regard VG-10 as one of the new "wonder steels", like 154CM, BG42, etc. However, Fallkniven uses it for the F1 Survival Knife. Is VG-10 different from the other high-end steels in being easy to sharpen, or did the Swedes ignore ease of sharpening as requirement for their survival knife?
 
I would consider this one rather as well balanced steel than as extreme one. It is significantly less brittle than ATS-34 or 145CM and in the edge it works in noticeably different way. ATS-34 (154CM) thanks to its brittleness micro-chips constantly at the very edge what causes some kind of self sharpening and quite aggressive cutting. More ductile VG-10 lacks this effect and it cuts less aggressively. I'm speaking just about subjective appearance, this is not exactly the same as cutting effectiveness, but VG-10 appears to cut more like 440C or AUS-8 than like ATS-34 or 154CM. It also seems to hold the edge slightly worse than ATS-34 but this is the question of more factors than just blade material.

As to sharpening - my very first impression on Fällkniven F1 was how easy I can get super keen edge. I have sharpened it with DMT Diamond Whetstone and finished on polish natural black honing stone (I'm not an expert in mineralogy, sorry). This stone is pretty soft and in fact it is useless to finish ATS-34 or CPM 440V blades but it coped pretty well with VG-10 despite its practically the same catalogued hardness.

Here and here you could find more info about my experiments with VG-10 cutting performance but this was while ago and I'm not sure these threads are still available.

Opppssss!
The table with test results is not available. It was the image hosted by PhotoPoint :(
And now that thread is not editable more. Here the table is once again.
<TABLE> <TABLE BORDER CELLSPACING=1 CELLPADDING=4 WIDTH=609> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="71%" VALIGN="TOP" COLSPAN=6> <B><Font SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Knives</B></FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP">&nbsp;</TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">M-16 Carbon Fiber</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">S-2</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">D2 Extreme</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Avalanche</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Calypso Jr. Ltw.</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">Delica</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P>Manufacturer</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="25%" VALIGN="TOP" COLSPAN=2> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">CRKT</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">KA-BAR</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">KERSHAW</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="22%" VALIGN="TOP" COLSPAN=2> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">SPYDERCO</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P>Blade length, mm</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">81</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">75</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">76</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">82</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">75</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">79</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P>Edge length, mm</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">79</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">70</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">75</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">82</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">64</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">71</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P>Blade steel</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">AUS-118</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">ATS-34</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">D-2</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">CPM 440V</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">VG-10</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">ATS-55</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P>Catalogued hardness, HRC</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">59-60</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">59-60</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">59-60</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">55-57</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">59-60</FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">59-61</FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P>Cuts through1/2-inche hemp rope</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">53</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">65</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">71</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">77</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">87</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">51</B></FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P>Cuts thorough car seat belt</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">17</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">18</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">20</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">18</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">26</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">16</B></FONT></TD> </TR> <TR><TD WIDTH="29%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P>Color pencils sharpened</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">21</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">28</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">17</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="12%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">34</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">17</B></FONT></TD> <TD WIDTH="11%" VALIGN="TOP"> <B><FONT SIZE=2><P ALIGN="CENTER">19</B></FONT></TD> </TR> </TABLE>
 
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