Best Hamons?

dylan_d · Jun 6, 2004

I believe there was a thread about this a few months ago, but I think it was deleted when the site went down. So, who do you think does the best hamons? Post a pic of some of the nicer ones that you've seen.

I really love this one by Terry Primos, it's simple and elegant

Not sure of the maker of this one, but the hamon is beautiful

Here's an outstanding one from Tai Goo

And these are probaly the best I've seen IMO, from Don Fogg.

Walking Man · Jun 6, 2004

What you mean best?
Do you visual or functional?
And if so, how do you determine which is the most functional?

Robert Marotz · Jun 6, 2004

OK I'm more into the Japanese style blades than the knives-end of this...but I think you might find my additions "cool" still.

Louis Mills (Yasutomo) Tanto blades, the one at the bottom is just wicked wild. Courtesy of JohnD Sword Polishing

other side

2 pieces by Howard Clark, courtesy of Brian Vanspeybroeck (Samonji Sword Crafts):
1086 Tanto:

San Mai Wakizashi:

I used to have LOTS of sexy Nihonto (Japanese sword) photos with drool-worthy hamon but don't have them anymore. There are also lots out there where the kessho polishing style doesn't allow the natural hamon to be adequately seen unless you have a lot of practice

RogerP · Jun 6, 2004

Dylan,

The knife in that second photo is by Steve Filicietti. I remember when it came up for sale - I was VERY tempted. While I was making up my mind, someone else made up theirs faster and bought it.

Roger

dylan_d · Jun 6, 2004

Walking Man said:
What you mean best?
Do you visual or functional?
And if so, how do you determine which is the most functional?

Visual is what I meant.

Joss · Jun 7, 2004

We should reserve the term hamon to stuff that is basically Jpz style - not the style of the knife, but the fact that it's made with a simple steel and polishedwith stones rather than etched. In the pictures above, that would be the case for the work of Don Fogg and the Howard Clark pieces. The other ones have amazing quench lines, but they're not hamons exactly.

One more pic of Howard's work, polished by Keith Larman:

dylan_d · Jun 7, 2004

I was thinking about when I posted Joss, whether they would be considered quench lines or a hamon. What is the difference between the two?

Joss · Jun 7, 2004

Well, in theory, a hamon is only the hardened part on a Jpz sword (which would mean that even the work of Don & Howard would be excluded because they're not Jpz). In practice, I think it's OK to use the term hamon as long as:
- The steel is a simple steel, 10XX or W1 or W2 series (or equivalent);
- The blade was clay coated before quench;
- The blade was polished but not etched.

Robert Marotz · Jun 7, 2004

Joss:

Then a substantial portion of blades by Don and Howard would be excluded, if you stand by the etch thing.

The etch does need to be cleaned up so the oxides do not remain dark on the blade, but they are an integral part of the hybrid polishing techniques used on a lot of fine blades. Louis Mills also etches his own blades for his "inspection polish", which is what is available on many of his pieces direct from JohnD.

Just polishing alone unless you're using the Japanese stones doesn't seem to bring up a hamon very well.

Just my opinion though.

Galloglas · Jun 7, 2004

Robert Marotz said:
Joss:

Then a substantial portion of blades by Don and Howard would be excluded, if you stand by the etch thing.

...and a substantial number of Nihonto. It is a well kept secret that various types of acid etching are, in fact, standard pratice with "traditional" stone polishes done by togishi on Japanese made blades. Fruit juice is sometimes applied by traditional Japanese polishers (and has been for centuries) to accent hamons that are not very distinct or do not give a look that the polisher deems appropriate.

Not to be combatative but I have seen quite a few hamon done by Japanese and western smiths alike....a "differential hardening line" that shows the delineation between soft and hard areas of the blade is a hamon if the viewer deems it such. I'm not much of a romantic. I don't care for hamon on modern blades. Actually I remember a time when Howard seemed kind of offended when people called his blades "Japanese" swords as they are made by a dedicated craftsman in Iowa out in a corn field...they are about as *not* Japanese as they come. But still his blades, in the hand and cutting, seem to be the epitome of "Japanese syle" as well as "Japanese". My opinion. And I wish could make it sound humble.

I find it ( a hamon) interesting but not at all necessary unless it is designed to mimic or actually is a Japanese style blade. Besides, it's just a word. Like Damascus steel...it isn't *really* Damascus steel. It just is a word we use to describe a phenomenon or product so we are all on the same page.

So, I'm not sure if I agree with Joss or not.

I kind of understand where he is coming from but I feel that the statement is a bit broad for me.

Brian

Robert Marotz · Jun 7, 2004

I figure if what you really want is a hamon that catches your eye, then it needs to be flamboyant and obvious, brought forward to become a main part of the aesthetic. The other reason in most modern blades is to break monotony and give a "natural" two-tone finish to a blade.

In Japanese blades it can be a lot more complicated. I've always been fond of the simple old styles when they have the itty bitty details sweeping around. I think ji-nie is more attractive than a thick nioi-guchi and for the last year or two, overall geometry has been the real "pow" factor for me.

One thing that started to turn me off were hamon that ride along the shinogi. Howard's done this in a few blades, I just don't really like the look. A high hamon (like the chojiesque stuff on that san mai waki) is one thing, but where it starts riding the shinogi, I dunno it just isn't as tasteful to me.

But I think the hamon has its part to play in the Japanese aesthetic and consequently in the aesthetic of styles deviating (however far) from it.

Megalobyte · Jun 7, 2004

I think we are arguing semantics, sure, if you want to be very technical, Dylans title should have read something like: "Most Attractive Diff. Hardening and Temper Lines" but I knew what he was saying as I'm sure we all do and did.

I was the one who started a thread a while back on this exact topic, and I believe I titled it: "Show us your temper...lines that is." and I still think its a good thread however it's titled, since many collectors, myself squarely included, are fans of these lines and the artistry they exhibit. I like them a lot, and have lately very much appreciated seeing smiths utilize them in various forms on their forged fixed blades. They impress me because I see it as both an homage to an ancient art and its also a very tangable and attractive by-product of the process of forging blades, as opposed to stock removal.

Frankly, I dont care if the knife is a traditional Japanese one or not, some knives I think really come alive when they possess an interesting line.

Speaking of which, let's not argue, instead, why not post pictures of knives which have a diff hardening line you find interesting.

Keith Montgomery · Jun 7, 2004

Scott Slobodian can do a nice hamon.

kamkazmoto · Jun 8, 2004

It is hard to imagine, but I almost missed this thread. You guys go ahead and attempt to resolve your semantic differences, all I want to do is look at these beautiful blades and drool.

RogerP · Jun 8, 2004

Nick Wheeler (pic from bladegallery.com):

Ed Caffrey (pic from caffreyknives.net):

Burt Foster (pic from Burt's site - this knife is part of the outstanding Danbo collection):

Tai Goo (pic from bladegallery.com):

Don Hanson III:

Cheers,

Roger

If you're not drooling by this point in the thread, there's something wrong with you.

Wulf · Jun 8, 2004

RogerP said:
Burt Foster (pic from Burt's site - this knife is part of the outstanding Danbo collection

Not anymore

Galloglas · Jun 9, 2004

A sanmai blade by Howard Clark of Moragn Valley Froge. The picture is of the blade just after etching the hamon out and cleaning up the oxides.

A small knife by Joe Walters of Moonlit forge.

Good stuff. Nice hamon.

Brian

golok · Jun 13, 2004

I wonder how I managed to miss this thread. It has some excellent pictures.

Bravo!

ExamonLyf · Jun 13, 2004

Just some gorgeous work guys! Wow....incredible stuff...

I guess I'd have to say the work I've seen by Don Fogg is as good as it gets, but I'm not expert (by a long shot)....

Good thread.., thanks for all the cool examples...

Drakoon · Jun 24, 2004

more please!!!@!