best impact strength?

rustyrazor

rustyrazor

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I hear a lot about "toughness" of blades and steels, and I was wondering which one had the best strength? I'm looking to make some larger chopping type knives, but I don't want to put all that work into a blade that's not going to hold up. I see the use of L6 or S7 being used in swords, so I'm guessing they would hold up fine, but I'm assuming stainless is almost out of the question, or would something like ELMAX actually take that kind of a beating?
 
yeah, but compared to something like L6 or 5160 they don't hold up from what I hear... in the strength department I mean. I'm looking for something that's going to excel at those tasks as well as edge holding and toughness, not just pretty good. although, I agree those are pretty good steels for taking a beating in their own right.
 
isn't s7 one of the steels used in high end jackhammer bits? That might be an indicator.

another forum says that they are typically 1045-1050 though, so thats busted as a cheap way to get good steel, but S7 is still one darn tough tool steel.
 
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sure is... and I'm pretty sure it's also used in a lot of power hammer heads as well (correct me if I'm wrong) but I don't hear a lot about it as a knife steel. does it hold a good edge, does it's edge chip out when it's hardened, is it only good within a working hardness, that's too low for a blade? anyone ever work with it and have an opinion on these factors? I know L6 is also renown for it's strength and the Gerbers of old that used it were actually "legendary blades" but how do these steels compare with the 3V and M4 types for edge retention and whatnot?
 
There are many factors including blade stock thickness and edge thickness as well as hardness. I don't think you would be disappointed in 3V but you would probably get better answers in the knife maker forum. Of coarse you could try a bunch of different steels and see what works best for you. That's what many knife makers do.
 
S = shock, they are specifically used in impact tools. Scrapyard uses S7. It does not have much wear resistance, but high toughness. S5 shoudl also work well, but we don't see it much, probably due to availability/cost.

how much toughness do you want? 3V will probably give you the best wear resistance for the toughness.

Sleipner, PD#1, Vanadis 4 Extra, etc. are probably your best bet as a step down. Close to A2 toughness with more wear resistance.

CPM-M4 is not as tough, though close if underhardened, but has much higher wear resistance.
 
rustyrazor said:
I hear a lot about "toughness" of blades and steels, and I was wondering which one had the best strength? I'm looking to make some larger chopping type knives, but I don't want to put all that work into a blade that's not going to hold up. I see the use of L6 or S7 being used in swords, so I'm guessing they would hold up fine, but I'm assuming stainless is almost out of the question, or would something like ELMAX actually take that kind of a beating?
Click to expand...

I think that, if you want a chopper, "strength" is not the property you want to optimize, "Strength" being a measurement of how much force is necessary to cause an alloy to bend. "High strength" alloys are brittle. Choppers require something that has some give to it. This is roughly called "toughness". You should be looking at a combination of alloy and final hardness which will give you toughness.

As There are successful choppers made out of
1095
1095 Cro Van
1085
1075
1055
5160
L6
O1
S7
ad infinitum
ad nauseum.
 
In General, the steel with the best toughness might make a great pry-bar but won't make a great chopper.

You need toughness, edge retention, geometry, and a quality heat treatment.

These must be balanced to suit the nature of the tool.



For big choppers steels like 1095 and 5160 is all you need.



Sure, you can spend a fortune an fancy steels that are expensive to heat treat and hard to grind,

...but in the long run the toughness of some of the simpler carbon steels just makes sense in a big chopper.





Big Mike
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I love this forum! ...I'm soaking stuff up like a sponge here, lol. I've only had experience making knives with 440c, D2, 1084, and old saw blades... which I can best assume is L6. I can't possibly try them all and test them, so the info here is amazing to fill in the gaps (there are a lot of gaps, mind you). My Main goal is ensuring that I have the most resilient knives I can make for my customers as, they are the kind of people that will beat my knives up worse than anyone sensible ever would. that's not a knock against them, it's just the nature of the beast really. what I've gathered so far ( in a lot of reading ) is that 3V and L6, is about the best I can hope for in a "tough" non stainless steel, that still holds a really good edge and ELMAX is unmatched for stainless as a hard use steel. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, just trying to wrap my head around these things.
 
You want to look into H13. Imagine a metal at molten red that still cuts like a demon...Nasty
 
will do... it's amazing how little I really know, once you get into the meat and potatoes of this, and I've been at it for over 20 years. I still hardly know anything apparently, lol.
 
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