Best Practices and Top Tips for Sharpening 'Scandi' Knives?

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Howdy,

I sharpen OK, but I don't much about sharpening 'scandi' type knives...

What do you like to do?

What do you find works best?

What do I need to know?

Best,
Marion
 
I use an 800 and 1200 grit King waterstones to grind the bevel down to "zero". Then I move to the Sharpmaker with only the white stones. Using the 30deg holes, I place the bevel against the stone then raise it just a tiny hair (just a hair) for a micro-bevel. Using the slightest touch for pressure, I take about 5 to 7 whisper light passes per side. Then I strop on wood-backed leather with green compound. If I were a smarter sharpener, I would probably say I'm not creating a micro-bevel at all, but rather removing any wire edge that may have formed.....but I'm not.....

The scandi-ground knives (my EnZos and Helles) are by far my sharpest knives (with the one possible exception of a mini-Canadian that can compete with them when I'm having a good night).
 
Though sandpaper on a flat backing works very well I like water stones best for that edge type. I prefer the feel and effectiveness/consistent speed in which they work. When I first started messing with the scandi I spent hours polishing that big'ol bevel until it was a complete mirror and sharp enough to shave a fleas butt without him knowing ;)

I soon learned though that this beautiful finish is a PITA when in use. First thing I learned was everything sticks to the bevel and is not easy to clean/remove. Second, is that deformations of the edge happen much easier simply because the edge is much thinner(think 15k+ grit). Anywhere between 3 to 8k seems to be a good medium for the edge type, you can still easily go sharper though by stropping flat or at a slightly raised angle. If finished to say 8k though you might not want to strop flat because you will get that high polished surface talked about above. Stropping with a raised angle you only need a few passes and with very light pressure, its like a micro convex but does not disturb the look of the bevel.

Microbevels set by a stone are something I usually do with blades of less than 60 Rc, the steel usually just usually can't handle the use. To be thin and stable its better if the hardness is higher otherwise the edge tends to fold like tin foil. Because of how small the edge is the angle you can microbevel at is surprisingly steep, 30+ degrees per side and you can still have hair splitting edges. When doing a microbevel you must also remember the thickness of the steel you are applying it to, one or two passes per side should be all you need. If the microbevel becomes to large it will start to effect the cut and be a pain to remove when re-setting the whole bevel.

Lastly, keep more pressure at the very edge while sharpening, normally what feels like solid bevel contact and pressure is actually too much pressure at the shoulder of the bevel. This issue will arise when getting into the finer stones, you will all the sudden notice the last 1/32 of the edge not being sharpened. Over time it can also decrease the overall angle of the scandi grind and increase its height on the blade.
 
knifenut1013 said:
Though sandpaper on a flat backing works very well I like water stones best for that edge type. I prefer the feel and effectiveness/consistent speed in which they work. When I first started messing with the scandi I spent hours polishing that big'ol bevel until it was a complete mirror and sharp enough to shave a fleas butt without him knowing ;)

I soon learned though that this beautiful finish is a PITA when in use. First thing I learned was everything sticks to the bevel and is not easy to clean/remove. Second, is that deformations of the edge happen much easier simply because the edge is much thinner(think 15k+ grit). Anywhere between 3 to 8k seems to be a good medium for the edge type, you can still easily go sharper though by stropping flat or at a slightly raised angle. If finished to say 8k though you might not want to strop flat because you will get that high polished surface talked about above. Stropping with a raised angle you only need a few passes and with very light pressure, its like a micro convex but does not disturb the look of the bevel.

Microbevels set by a stone are something I usually do with blades of less than 60 Rc, the steel usually just usually can't handle the use. To be thin and stable its better if the hardness is higher otherwise the edge tends to fold like tin foil. Because of how small the edge is the angle you can microbevel at is surprisingly steep, 30+ degrees per side and you can still have hair splitting edges. When doing a microbevel you must also remember the thickness of the steel you are applying it to, one or two passes per side should be all you need. If the microbevel becomes to large it will start to effect the cut and be a pain to remove when re-setting the whole bevel.

Lastly, keep more pressure at the very edge while sharpening, normally what feels like solid bevel contact and pressure is actually too much pressure at the shoulder of the bevel. This issue will arise when getting into the finer stones, you will all the sudden notice the last 1/32 of the edge not being sharpened. Over time it can also decrease the overall angle of the scandi grind and increase its height on the blade.
Click to expand...


From your sale post, I see you have the Spyderco Benchstones as well as Japanese Waterstones....

What are the differences, and how does that affect your sharpening.

Best,
Marion
 
Spyderco benchstones are great on low alloy stainless but not much else IMO. The other problem I found with them is they are not nearly as flat as they seem and make unevevn contact when used with a scandi or large bevel grind. You must also be careful with high Rc carbon steels as I've experienced chipping of the edge and bending/deformation with improper amounts of pressure. In other words, you would not be a happy camper using these stones to sharpen your scandi.

I started with man made water stones from King, they worked but were cheap and I wanted better in hopes of a higher quality feel and finish. I sold my king stones and picked up a naniwa 12k for finishing and to see what a better stone is like. It was better I guess but still not what I was looking for. The main thing that bothered me was the sitcky/gummy feel of most stones above 4k and not so consistent finish between steels. Man made stones also have a hard time with "hard steels" like D2, S30V, and the like.

I started sharpening with arkansas stones so I felt natural stones would be my next logical bet. It was a good bet and one I should have started with in the first place. To break it down, the feel is what it should be, the finish is much better, and S30V, 1095, D2 whatever it doesn't matter it cuts them all.

Finding and understanding naturals without pulling out your hair or taking out a loan can be the hard part though. The stones I REALLY want would set me back probably 10k+ so I started looking for cheaper alternatives. I picked up a blue Aoto stone from japanwoodworker.com for around 60 bucks, its listed as a 3k-5k stone but IMO looks more like 1k-3k. It yields a beautiful scratch pattern and has proven itself to remove 60 grit sander marks and 320 grit diamond scratches from my last scandi adventure. They have another stone called the Awase To (?) and its a finer finishing stone but I don't have it yet so I am unable to comment on it at this point. I would guess it works just as well though.

Personally, I have no plans to ever buy a man made water stones again and will eventually have just 3 naturals. The aoto I have now a 220 grit green stone and the awase To, beyond that I'll use compound for any higher of a finish. If naturals don't appeal to you then I would suggest norton combo 220/1k 4k/8k.
 
Thanks for this info..

Where does DMT stones fit into your travels?

Also could you talk more about the Norton stones
 
I can only effectively use my coarser diamonds with scandi grinds and even then its hit or miss if I get it right. I think it has to do with the extreme light pressure that should be used with diamond hones. If you can get good results from diamond benchstones on a scandi more power to ya, I'll stick with my water stones.

I suggest the nortons because they are well reviewed by others that I have no reason to doubt and they are a quality stone. I have yet to use them personally so cannot give any insight about them. I have heard though that they are graded in mesh like a diamond hone and cut very fast.
 
Should you decide on the Norton Stones (I think they're decent enough), my suggestion would be to not get the 220/1K combo, but get them seperate. The 220 wears pretty quick. (If you don't plan on using them alot, then of course the combo might suffice). Also, for any waterstones, make sure you have a method for keeping them flat.


cbw
 
I often appreciate a razor sharp polished scandi. It takes a while to get there (I enjoy doing it), but once done it is pretty easy to maintain (given the cutting task doesn't require a microbevel). I think generally polished blades cut most things with less force than a coarser bevel, and haven't had any trouble with anything sticking to the bevel.
 
I have had the best results with sandpaper on plate glass followed by stropping. I admit shooting for as close to mirror polish as possible. I'm still very new to this also.
 
Broos said:
I often appreciate a razor sharp polished scandi. It takes a while to get there (I enjoy doing it), but once done it is pretty easy to maintain (given the cutting task doesn't require a microbevel). I think generally polished blades cut most things with less force than a coarser bevel, and haven't had any trouble with anything sticking to the bevel.
Click to expand...

What do you finish with?
 
knifenut1013 said:
What do you finish with?
Click to expand...

Either a 5000 or a 15000 shapton pro, or a king gold stone. I certainly agree it is more work, and that cutting some things is too much for all very sharp zero edge scandis (a couple of my O2 scandis need a microbevel), but I have found it is very hard to get an edge sharpened any other way as sharp as a scandi edge sharpened by sharpening the whole (flat) bevel on a flattened stone.
 
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