Best sharpening system with minimal angle variation due to flex or play?

[ChasingSharpness]

I've currently got a TSprof K03 and I noticed there is some play when applying pressure with stones, which is causing some angle inconsistency. I believe the play is from the point where the clamp arm/bar connects to the rotating pivot, not the actual whole milled clamps. I havn't been able to get in touch with TSprof, so I'm unsure if this is normal. I have heard some people place something underneath the knife to reduce this up and down play.

But regardless , I was wondering if there was any other systems with a rock solid mechanism? For example I know the edgepro beveltech uses a table rather than a clamp with pivot. Or perhaps some other system?

 

[Wowbagger]

Yes the good old basic Edge Pro Apex from way back helps me produce edges I would have never dreamed I could make until I got it and learned the fine points of using it ; the stone thickness compensator collar is a must and the small knife addapter . Both available for the price of sales tax on some of the other brands essential "adapters".
With the appropriate stones , water stones for lesser alloys and diamond for the high alloy tool steels. I EASILY get multi curl hair whittling edges while the hair is still in my arm. With a super minimum of stropping the edge durability goes up another order of magnitude to match any pro sharpening service in the world.

All in your kitchen with no big investment ; be sure to add some jeweler visor magnification which now has a light built in to them.

Okakura Kakuzo said : If you can make tea well you can do anything well .
I say : Including sharpen your knife .

 

[jjg6319]

I have the Edge Pro Pro model and agree with the above. The table is very sturdy and the use of magnets really makes the knife want to remain in place and not move or rock.

 

[Glock Guy]

You are correct that there are two possible things at work here: Flex and/or play, and you can have that angle variation happen with either play in the sharpener, or flex in the blade.

Play is where the cylinder doesn’t stay locked in place solidly, and flex can happen on a system that locks in place perfectly, but you push too hard on the blade.

I don’t like sharpeners that use a rotating cylinder because it creates the “play” problem you just described. It seems like there will always be a little bit of play as you get towards the tip on those types of systems. They also need to be calibrated so you are at a flat zero in order to make sure the cylinder rotates 180 degrees, or the bevel will be off when you flip it from side to side.

Both the TSPROF Kadet and Blitz use a clamp that UNLOCKS, rotates 180 degrees, and locks in place. While there is no play because of the locking mechanism, you can still get the blade to flex if you push hard enough, ESPECIALLY WITH YOUR DOMINANT HAND.

The best cure for this is just to go very lightly and let the stones do the work. If you are setting a bevel, grab the coarsest stone you have and use a light touch. Then, maintain that light touch as you go through the grits.

You can also use a few fingers of your other hand when you get to the tip to make sure you are not pushing hard as BOTH the flex and play problems will be the greatest at the tip.

The Edgepro system would eliminate, or at least greatly minimize the issues you mentioned, but, depending on the grind, would still have some other issues unique to it as well.

 

[777 Edge]

Any table based system (Leading Edge Core / Hapstone M3 / Hapstone V8 / Edge Pro / Kazak magnetic table etc. and many other similar systems will provide a rigid surface under your blade.

Virtually all clamp based systems will have very slight downwards flex while sharpening when pressure is applied. Note - flex is fine, not movement of the blade inside the clamps. If your blade is not secure in the clamps, then your edge angle will be inconsistent.

One important point to note is the fact that there is actually an advantage to slight flex - it saves fatiguing, cracking or overstressing from occurring on an edge when excessive pressure is applied while sharpening. If you apply too much pressure on a rigid platform based system, you don't have that added protection and can easily damage your fragile edge - so you need to be more careful.

The slight downward flex with most clamp based systems, such as your K03, will not negatively effect your edge at all. The downward flex pushes the edge down and away from the stone so the only thing that happens if you apply too much pressure, is removal of a tiny bit of steel above and behind your edge. This merely causes very microscopic convexing behind your edge. It doesn't damage or negativity effect your edge, it in fact gives the edge some protection when you slip up and apply too much pressure.

Again, note that you should NOT have any PLAY in the clamps, but slight FLEX is perfectly fine.

 

[Tensaw]

I've not noticed any play in the clamping system on my K03, but if you twist the knife handle hard enough, you can make a clamped knife flex slightly. It would take a lot of excessive downward pressure to make this an issue. The K03's clamp is way more solid and easier to use than the KME I used to use.

 

[Wowbagger]

The slight downward flex with most clamp based systems, such as your K03, will not negatively effect your edge at all . . . slight FLEX is perfectly fine.

You may be right.
I might even stretch to ; you are probably right .

But from my back ground I was taught / learned : rigidity in the set up is one of the first principles of precision machining .
I can't let that go so those diving board like clampy things make me cringe .
After all sharpening IS precision machining ; working to tolerances of microns / or at least ten thousandths . Everything else is just wasted motion / slap dash .

 

[777 Edge]

You may be right.
I might even stretch to ; you are probably right .

But from my back ground I was taught / learned : rigidity in the set up is one of the first principles of precision machining .
I can't let that go so those diving board like clampy things make me cringe .
After all sharpening IS precision machining ; working to tolerances of microns / or at least ten thousandths . Everything else is just wasted motion / slap dash .

Yep, I agree. But with a light touch (the right way sharpen), there is no flex in a K03 or similar system.

 

[Officer's Match]

One thing the newer Kazak's have going for them is the solid magnetic stops for the rotating clamp system provides a second positive stop for the clamp bar. That to me seems to be, in theory at least, a potential improvement in removing potential "wiggle".

 

[Mr.Wizard]

The slight downward flex with most clamp based systems, such as your K03, will not negatively effect your edge at all. The downward flex pushes the edge down and away from the stone so the only thing that happens if you apply too much pressure, is removal of a tiny bit of steel above and behind your edge. This merely causes very microscopic convexing behind your edge. It doesn't damage or negativity effect your edge, it in fact gives the edge some protection when you slip up and apply too much pressure.

On a blade table you have something similar unless you are working on a full-flat-grind, in that if you contact the table near the spine of the knife excess pressure will cause it to tip forward, moving the table-contact toward the edge and the stone contact back from the edge. On a sabre grind this is a distinct moment. On a convex grind it is a continuum; one I make use of to intentionally convex the edge as is IMO often appropriate on these blades. Spine-side contact sets the maximum edge angle and prevents rounding the apex.

 

[777 Edge]

On a blade table you have something similar unless you are working on a full-flat-grind, in that if you contact the table near the spine of the knife excess pressure will cause it to tip forward, moving the table-contact toward the edge and the stone contact back from the edge. On a sabre grind this is a distinct moment.

Just a note for those selecting a system with a blade table - a well designed blade table should always be designed to compensate for the tipping / rocking motion of saber & similar type grinds.

As an example, I specifically designed the Leading Edge & Leading Edge Core systems with a vertical blade support in the front for this exact reason.

If a blade is free to tip back and forth over the blade table with a saber type or similar grind knife type, it will result in very inconsistent sharpening accuracy.

 

[Tritium]

I have the wicked edge pro and it doesn't flex. I don't like having to flip the knife, so for me, it's the best option. I have a tormek t8 but it doesn't get much use. I will have to use it more to form a better opinion but no flex there either.