Best steel for a knife?

Joined
Jun 15, 1999
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I asked this somewhere else, but I forget where I posted it and now I can't find it and what people responded, so I'll try here again..

What would people consider the strongest steel? Is there a clear winner? I know some stel don't keep an edge, some are junk, some have their own specialty. But what would people consider the best steel, say in terms of strength? Titanium?
 
Titanium isn't steel, it's titanium. Are you asking about strongest materials for a knife blade in general? Or do you really want to know about steels in particular?

Just out of curiosity, why the emphasis on strength? There are really strong non-cutlery steels that won't take or hold an edge worth anything. Are you including them in your question? In addition, the subject you wrote for this thread is "best steel for a knife". The strongest steel is definitely not always the best. I'm wondering if you're going astray a little bit here. I'd advise starting with the design criteria for a particular knife -- kind of jobs it will do, chopping/splitting/slicing/slashing/puncturing/whatever -- and then letting us work up to the steel from there.

BTW, I think you posted your original query in Darrel Ralph's Shop forum. [update -- just checked, didn't find it there, sorry]

Joe
jat@cup.hp.com

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 05 July 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Joe Talmadge (edited 05 July 1999).]
 
For some reason, my post didn't post, so I'll try again..
Yeah, I guess I mean the strongest materials for a knife. I know that knives use such things as carbon, chromium, and vanadium, etc. I was looking for the strongest out of like ATS-34, 440A and 440C, AUS8A, D-2, 154-CM, 1070, etc. I thought the proper term was metals, guess it's materials (not exactly up on the proper terms yet).
I asked for strength because it seemed like the most important factor, but they're might be other things I don't see. Such as edge holding. Heard 440A isn't good at edge holding. Ok, lemme try this - what would be the best overall metal or material (whichever is right) in your opinion.

 
Okay Tuff, you may get frustrated, but bear with me.

Hard to say what the "best" steel is, without a context. Can you see that different types of knives demand different types of steels? For a salt-water dive knife, rust resistance is probably the most important property, followed by toughness for prying, but edge holding isn't as important. For a combat fixed blade, toughess is very important, edge holding almost as important, stainless may or may not be depending on the user. A folding knife typically wants a compromise of all 3, though typically I want my folder to be a little heavier on the edge-holding side.

Think of steels as bundles of trade-offs. There are tradeoffs of things that directly affect you, like edge holding, corrosion resistance, toughness, and price. And there are properties that indirectly affect you, like machinability, ease of heat treatment, availability.

The best steel for a knife depends on the kind of knife it is, and the requirements of the user. If you live near the ocean, maybe the "best" steel for you is a little more rust resistant, even at the expense of edge holding (e.g., perhaps you want AUS-8). Here in dry CA, I might want the exact same knife, but be able to sacrifice rust resistance for better edge holding (e.g., perhaps I want ATS-34 or even D-2).

Anyway, what I'm hoping to convince you is that the way to understand steels is *not* by asking open-ended questions like "which is the best?" Those questions have no good answers, and any answers you do get will be HIGHLY misleading. There's a couple good ways to learn about steels. One way is to zero in on a particular knife, and describe *exactly* what you're going to be using it for, then ask people what they think the optimum steel is for that knife's edge geometry and for your particular uses. Even then, you'll notice the many knowledgeable people on the forums will not come to a consensus -- there are often many good solutions to the exact same problem.

I'm sorry it's not simpler than that, but there it is!

Joe

PS Yes, titanium and all the steels you mentioned are metals.
 
As Joe said, there is no "best" steel, it's all trade-offs. There is no "best" knife, just trade-offs. Often there is more than one answer to the same question, and always there are bad answers.

If strength, measured in terms of yield strength and toughness, are your main concerns, look to carbon steels. They also hold edges well. I'm one of those guys who lives by the ocean. Right now, I could litteraly throw a rock and have in land in the Atlantic Ocean. I'm on a barrier island on the East coast of Florida, and right on the beach. I have used carbon steel knives here for a very long time, actualy I've never *owned* a fixed-blade made from stainless. I have no problems with corosion with minimal maintainence. You know, wiping down the blade after use, maybe a light coat of oil from time to time, nothing you wouldn't do anyway. Stainlessness is nice, but not a neccessity.

My legendary exploits in the wilds of Florida are recorded elsewhere, but suffice it to say my knives see frequent and heavy use.

A2 ain't bad either. A little bit of chromium, but not enough to be a real stainless.
 
Ok, I think I understand that. I just didn't know if something like ATS-34 was stronger than something like A-2. What does the Buck Nighhawk use?
 
Oh okay, so you're asking more for "a list of which steels are stronger than which and in what way" sorta thing.

That would probably be better answered on the shop talk forum.

I would speculate that A2 is tougher than ATS-34, based on stianless steels tending to be not as tough as tool steels due to higher levels of alloying.

1095 is a good, tough, hard-use carbon steel that is kinda overlooked these days. One of my all-time favorites.

I have no clue what goes into a NightHawk. Probably something in the 4xx series. I thought I heard Buck uses 420 modified or something in their folders.
 
The Nighthawk uses 420HC (high carbon) stainless steel. It's a good, tough steel that holds an edge very well. Some have said that it is hard to sharpen, but if you use the right tools and technique, it isn't too bad. The new edge grind has made the sharpening process a bit easier.

The Nighthawk is a very strong knife and if you can break it during normal use or even under extreme conditions, you are one strong dude.

Dennis

P.S. What I tell my customers when they ask this question about steels is to check out the parameters of the available steels, read all of the opinions from all of the "experts" (if you can find the time, there are a LOT of those), and then, after you are thouroughly confused, pick the one that, in your own opinion, you feel the most confidence in. Something will always stand out. Use your own instincts and understand that, unless you are having a custom knife made to your exact specifications, including type of steel, etc., the QUALITY manufacturers all use good steel in their products and you can expect good service from any of them. Usually, the better steels will cost more. Let that be your guide, for lack of anything else.

The one exception to that rule may be 1095. Snickersnee is right. It is a very good steel and is often underrated.

Good luck!

------------------
Isn't it amazing how 2 cents worth of opinion takes up a quarter's worth of paper???

wrightknife@ixpres.com


 
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