Best steels for hamon development.

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Oct 27, 2005
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I'm going to begin trying my hand at developing hamon lines. I don't know which steels work best for developing hamon lines. I'm wondering if any of you would be kind enough to help me rank the following steels (1080, 1084, 15N20, 1095, 52100, O1, W2 and any I might have left out) by the following two criteria from best to worst.

Ease of developing a noticeable hamon.

Quality of the hamon's appearance.

I'm thinking that the easier it is to bring out a hamon, the more likely it is that the hamon will look nice. However, I don't want to make that assumption.

Scott (Ickie) Ickes
 
It's all about hardenability .If you're talking about hardening with clay the 1050 to 1070 work the best like a katana.For differential quenching [quenching just the edge ] it's similar .For your list I would think 1080, 1084,1095,W2, O-1, 52100. Not sure where 15N20 would fit in.
 
Traditional Japanese heat treating (true hamon): 1080, 1095, W2

Edge quench: 1084, 52100, O1

Either will make an excellent knife -if done right. If you're after a traditional look, 1075 will probably work the best. Japanese smiths tend to keep carbon content under .85%.

You can't do this with oil:

http://www.waltersorrells.com/blades/norm hamon.jpg

Check out the top blade, the "smokey cloud bursts" (don't know any other way to describe it) is choji and really hard to do.

Yoshindo Yoshihara makes some superb blades, this book may be helpful:

http://www.amazon.com/Craft-Japanes...8921718-6303211?ie=UTF8&qid=1177799225&sr=1-1
 
A good rule of thumb; look for steels that contain low amounts of manganese.

I believe these steels tend to produce the most pronounced hamons.

Fred
 
As Fred said, low manganese is the key and very little or no chromium.

W2, W1, 1095 give the best results for me.
 
Mete brought up a interesting point, so I'll ask the question; Has anyone done, or even seen, a hamon on 15n20? Seems that the low carbon (1075ish?) would be a plus, don't know about manganese or chromium. I'll see if I can dig up a chart of what all is in it.
 
I've seen Jesus Hernandez get hamon on his 15N20, 1095, and 1050 mix. But I have never seen a hamon done on just a 15N20 blade...I've never even seen just a 15N20 knife. I've got some extra 15N20 laying around...should I give it a go at the clay HT??? I think it would be interesting to find out. I think it would. Isn't 15N20 basicly 1070 with nickle thrown in???

-Mike Sheffield
 
I'll 2nd Kevin Casey's comment about Don Hansons W2. I've also produced some nice ones using 1095, that would be the extent of my Hamon experience. Not having the courage to use water for the quench all of my Hamon has been done using oil as the quenchant. Pics show some Hanson W2 w/Hamon on a Blade I finished thursday. Not quite a "Hanson Hamon", but I'm workin on it ;) (thanks for the steel Don.....I want more :D )
 
First, please excuse my dumb questions before I even ask :o

Does a very noticeable hamon mean there's a fast transition between the hardened/softer parts of the blade (I would think so), and is this transition a possible weak point? Does this potentially weak line not matter much because it runs parallel to the blade, and it's just not likely to break in this direction? For instance if you had a hamon going across the blade instead of along it (for testing only), wouldn't it be easiest to break off right by the hamon?

Or am I just thinking too much again? :D
 
The hamon is a complex deal. When you say "better" , do you mean more contrasty or more activity? I mean, lots of steels (even 5160 and other low alloy steels...) will make a hamon and the level of contrast (how bold it is when polished) can be quite high. What we are seeing in the case of differentially hardened low alloy is just the crystaline difference between hard and soft steel. The edge is (to some degree) Martensite. The body will remain "something else" and polish differently and have a different lustre. Almost any plain or low alloy steel can make a good, contrasty hamon.

But activity is a different deal. Like the swords you see where the hamon forms clouds and swirls and the habuchi (that little line of bright white crystals that delineates soft and hard steel areas...) is wide or has swirls and cool stuff in it and we see areas of dark and light within the actual hamon itself. Activity is exploiting the different areas of hardenability and walking a very close line between hardening and not hardening.

Japanese use steel that is in the .6 to .7 carbon range but there are layers of all kinds of stuff in there...pattern welded steel that is low in hardenability makes some really cool patterns.

In monosteel I find that 1050 and the lower carbon/higher Manganese steels can make a wider and fluffier habuchi and get activity that is very close to the Japanese blades. The higher carbon steels do a great job as well but crack more easily and tend to have a thinner habuchi. The higher carbon steels that lack Manganese still develop wild hamon with a lot of activity but they need to have their hardenability lowered by thermal cycling.

For examples of the differences, do some web research on Bob Engnaths katana blades made of 1050, look at Rick Barretts katana for higher carbon done in oil, and look at Howard Clarks stuff to see what a .86 percent carbon steel can do when modified and heat treated by a master.

http://www.summerchild.com/be_consignkatana.htm

et_engnath2.jpg


http://www.barrettcustomknives.com/

nambokuchobweb.jpg


http://www.mvforge.com/index.html

clarkiriskatana15.JPG


Needless to say, this whole idea of which steel is best for making hamon is a huge concept and is very complex. Differential heat treat to make a visually appealing hardening line and still maintain a good performing blade will take a lifetime to master. Lots of steel will work just fine if the craftsman spends the time to get familiar with the quirks of the steel and learns to exploit it.

My opinion is that there is no "one best" steel for makiing hamon as there is no one "best" way to do anything in the world of cutlery. It's all research and then doing it in the shop, over and over again, until you learn the secrets and get a handle on the practical, real life aspects of what you are trying to accomplish.

If I was going to start making blades with the only criteria being a cool hamon with a minimum amount of cracking and issues I'd start with 1050 and go from there.

Brian
 
Very well said Brian, that covers it all, great links and pics to. I agree with your last comment if using a water quench but if a fast oil is used, the higher carbon (W2, W1, 1095) can produce a very wild hamon with no cracking.

Thanks Dave and Kelly, I still have a good bit of W2 :D
 
Gibson fan - The hardened edge is more brittle than the pearlite spine or the troosite hamon. Thus the hamon is not a weaker place, but a stronger (tougher) place than the edge. A chip in the blade, formed during use, would stop at the hamon. This was one of the main reasons for the clay coated hardening.

kibuddha4 - 15N20 is basically L-6, which produces great blades, but I don't think it is optimal for hamon.
15N20 is usually a more exact alloy of .75 Carbon,.75 Manganese, 1.5 Nickel, and .25 Silicon.
L-6 formula can vary a lot from supplier to supplier. It usually has the same C,Mn,Ni,and Si, with a small amount of Cr, and Mo. often added.
Stacy
 
Don

...if a fast oil is used, the higher carbon (W2, W1, 1095) can produce a very wild hamon with no cracking.

Can you quantify your comment for me and tell me what speed of oil you mean by "a fast oil" ?

I love the work shown here, it's all fantastic

Steve
 
Don



Can you quantify your comment for me and tell me what speed of oil you mean by "a fast oil" ?

I love the work shown here, it's all fantastic

Steve

I use the fastest oil available which is Park's #50. But, I have seen some very active hamon by Don Fogg using Tough Quench. Time and temp is also very important when heating to quench, as in low aust. temp (1425f - 1450f) with a good soak.
 
Hey Don,

With the really fast oils do you still get the dreaded "reverse sori" phenomenon where the blade actually straightens out instead of curving? I have always been curious to try the fast oils but I'm a PITA about curvature. Playing a guessing game about loss of curve is too much for me to handle...I hate oil. :D Stinky, smoky, dirty, sticky.....uck.

Anyway, I wanted to add that a lot of folks write off the low alloy steels as being not able to make a nice hamon but this is not really true. I'm seeing other guys getting nice lines on O1 and all kinds of stuff. I'm getting cool stuff on 5160. The lines are plain but the contrast and ability to show a gentle undulation of the line if not out and out activity is possible if you walk the right line in hardening.

Look at what Howard Clark does with L6!!

L6_kissaki.jpg


Photo and polishing courtesy of Keith Larman at Summer Child Polishing:
http://www.summerchild.com/summer.html

Any steel that can be hardened in water, oil, or salt can make a good hamon and is worth experimenting with, IMO. The simple 10XX steels are obviously the most used and give the greatest bang for the buck but low alloy steels, while not widely used can do some awesome stuff if you take the time to learn and know the steel.

One more picture....Lookie what Randal Graham does with W1!

LongHamon.jpg


Brian
 
Brian, most of the time I get no sori or curve with a single quench, but if I don't like the hamon and quench a second or third time, it will pull the point down (reverse sori). This is not a prob with the style blades I make, actually, I like a bit of recurve:)

Howard gets a nice hamon with L6 (and his non-traditional methods) but he gets much more activity with 1086M :)
 
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