Best type of folder for police work

S

Smudge

Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
79
Hello:
New to the forum and looking for folding knife with a pocket clip. I like the Spyderco Native and Benchmade Griptilian. I am actually considering buying one for on duty and the other to keep for off duty. By budget is about $75 for each knife ($150 total). The BM and Spyderco both have different locking mechanisms. The Benchmade has the Axis lock while the Spyderco has the lock on the top of the handle (I do not know what this lock is called). Someone at work cautioned me against ANY knife that has the same type of lock as the Spyderco because it could accidentially close in a situation where I had to use the knife in a hand to hand combat fight. Anyone have any thoughts on this? And, can anyone comment on my above two choices or provide me with something else. Thanks
 
Welcome to Bladeforums!

Two good choices. Both the axis lock Griptilian and the lockback Native are tough, reliable knives. They are very different in almost every respect -- which is good. You get to see the different characteristics in action, and get an idea what you like best.

I personally like the Native a lot. But that's a matter of personal taste. The Griptilian is very effective, with an exceptionally strong and easy to use lock. But lockbacks are the old reliables of knife locking systems and Spyderco uses the Boye dent, an indentation on the lock to make it less likely to get pushed in accidentally.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Welcome to Bladeforums!

Two good choices. Both the axis lock Griptilian and the lockback Native are tough, reliable knives. They are very different in almost every respect -- which is good. You get to see the different characteristics in action, and get an idea what you like best.

I personally like the Native a lot. But that's a matter of personal taste. The Griptilian is very effective, with an exceptionally strong and easy to use lock. But lockbacks are the old reliables of knife locking systems and Spyderco uses the Boye dent, an indentation on the lock to make it less likely to get pushed in accidentally.
Click to expand...

So would you say, using a Native, that it would be hard to accidentially close the knife? What exactly is the Boye dent - I cannot see what you are referring to when looking at a pic of this knife. Thanks
 
Spyderco Native
Spyderco Native III

I'm getting old. The latest Native has the Boye dent. Look at the pics at the links above, and you can see it on the second one.

In either case, I would find it impossible to accidentally release the lock on any Native, using a full hand grip with my palm across the back of the handle.
 
Well, the lock on the Native is called a lockback. The Boye dent is some extra metal removed from the protrusion of the lock bar, so that it is less likely to be depressed accidentally.

I agree with your friend that a lockback is the worst choice for hand to hand. I have never used an axis lock so I can't comment on their suitability for H2H.

You should definitely check out the Ka-Bar TDI, which was designed for police work, and it's only $30.

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=KA1480

If the TDI doesn't appeal to you or you just prefer a folder, I would recommend a framelock knife as the safest style. Anyway, check out the TDI and if you don't like it, we can make more recommendations.
 
VegasNick said:
Well, the lock on the Native is called a lockback. The Boye dent is some extra metal removed from the protrusion of the lock bar, so that it is less likely to be depressed accidentally.

I agree with your friend that a lockback is the worst choice for hand to hand. I have never used an axis lock so I can't comment on their suitability for H2H.

You should definitely check out the Ka-Bar TDI, which was designed for police work, and it's only $30.

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=KA1480

If the TDI doesn't appeal to you or you just prefer a folder, I would recommend a framelock knife as the safest style. Anyway, check out the TDI and if you don't like it, we can make more recommendations.
Click to expand...

The TDI is nice, but I need a pocket folder with a clip. So you think that a lockback, like the Native, would be a bad choice to use in the event that I had to use this knife in a fight?
 
I would be very, very surprised if the lock on the Native released accidently. If you have any doubts, find a Spyderco dealer that carries the Native and give it the white knuckle test. Grip it so hard that your knuckles turn white and see if the lock releases. I don't think that it will.

Or just buy the Griptilian. It's a fantastic knife.
 
cabron50 said:
I would be very, very surprised if the lock on the Native released accidently. If you have any doubts, find a Spyderco dealer that carries the Native and give it the white knuckle test. Grip it so hard that your knuckles turn white and see if the lock releases. I don't think that it will.

Or just buy the Griptilian. It's a fantastic knife.
Click to expand...


My thinking was the Griptilian for off duty that I can keep at home and the Native for on duty, but I do not want to carry this knife if it is possible that the lock could accidentially disengage during a hand to hand fight.
 
The only knife which cannot disengage under stress is ... a fixed blade. Folders fold. Properly maintained, properly gripped and used, a well-made folder from a reputable company will not fail erratically, whatever the lock. Lockbacks are at least as reliable as other locks.

In hand-to-hand combat, grappling with an opponent, you are covering the Native's lock with your grip, but an axis lock's bar is exposed, and if your opponent pushes against the knife, he may disengage it -- it takes very little pressure to release. This is a rare scenario, but then, so should knife-fighting itself be, anyway.
 
Smudge said:
My thinking was the Griptilian for off duty that I can keep at home and the Native for on duty, but I do not want to carry this knife if it is possible that the lock could accidentially disengage during a hand to hand fight.
Click to expand...

You might consider having the same model for on/off duty, under the stress of a struggle, you brain and body will want to open your knife the way the one your most familiar with opens. If your used to the thumbstuds and feel of one knife, but just happen to have the other knife, the delay in opening might be a problem.

My .02, go for 2 Griptillians, top quality and very light (your gonna have to carry enough weight on you duty belt already) and well under your $75.00 budget.

Best of luck to you on the job!
 
The Spyderco D'Allara drop point has many of the advantages of the Griptilian, but due to the recessed nature of the ball bearing, is less likely to unintentionally disengage.
 
Nobody can garantee that lock will not fail. However some knives has lock on lock. Like LAWK system for CRKT knives and plunge lock on MOD Mark I and MOD Mark II.

I am not even close to be an expet but I heart from one whom I may trust (MA instructor for SN) that MOD Mark more suitable for H2H then other folders. However they kind of pricy, but from other hand if you really want you life depend on it then it should not matter.

This is MOD Mark II

MOD-Mark-II-19.jpg


it is arund $180

This is CRKT M1 with LAWK system

CRKT-M1-05.jpg


M1 is aroung $50

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Properly gripped, the Native would be unlikely to release but a fight introduces many unplanned variables. If the knife wound up in a reverse grip (with your fingers rather than your palm on the back of the knife), it would be more likely that your own hand could release it. As Esav said, in a struggle it could be released by the other person, this is not likely, but a lockback is usually the last choice in a combat knife for those reasons. A linerlock is preferable to a lockback, but the best choice for H2H, is a framelock.

I certainly agree that it would be better to have only ONE knife rather than two, so that you become so familiar with it and develope automatic reactions for drawing and deploying it. This would also give you more money, to buy a better knife.

Some of my favorites...

Around $40 - $75: Camillus "Heat", Timberline "Kelly Worden Tactical" (in a Medium size, the large is pretty big), Kershaw "Blur", and Buck "889"

Around $100 - $150: (MOD) Masters of Defense "AFCK", Ontario "XM-1", Microtech "Mini Socom Elite", Buck "882"
 
A couple of things I'd like to add.. You can get the Spyderco Native for $40 from New Graham knives and also at some Wal Marts. You might want to go there and handle it to see what it's like. You have to depress the Native's lock bar quite a lot for it to disengage, and it's pretty stiff on mine, so I wouldn't worry too much about it disengaging. Of course you never know what could happen if you had to use a knife in a fight, though I don't think (and hope) I ever will. Also, you might be able to get a Spyderco Paramilitary (~$100) and the Griptillian within your price range. This is a very popular knife and has a lock generally considered to be very secure.
 
No H2H expert here, but I think you might want to consider the purchase of one more expensive knife (approx. $100) that you would carry all the time. This would increase familiarity with knife's characteristics and "muscle memory."

The knives you've mentioned are both well regarded, though I'm not a fan of lockbacks (arbitrary choice based upon my enjoyment of easy one hand opening and closing).
 
For police work i would carry a smallish folder for utility like a benchmade mini pika or the like. I would also carry a Bigger knife for those times when it gets up close like a CRKT m-16.

For off duty the benchmade griptillian is an excellent choice:thumbup:
 
Welcome Smudge,

First, let me say that both the Griptilian and the Native are very nice knives from two of the best makers in the industry.

Having said that...

The Native uses the lock-back design.
It is very secure and very reliable.
It has been used in thousands of folders for over forty years and I am unaware of any major problems with this lock design.
The Buck 110 uses this style of lock and it has been used for over forty years by cops, hunters, bikers, construction workers, military personnel, and everyone in between, and it has proven itself reliable and secure a million times over in many a life-and-death struggle.
I have no problems with placing my trust in a Spyderco lock-back folder.

The Griptilian uses the wonderful Benchmade Axis-lock.
It is also a very secure and reliable design.
It has'nt been around near as long as the lock-back and it is a more complicated system, but it has proven itself within the knife world time and time again (mostly because it is only made by Benchmade and so can be regulated moreso that the lock-back design).

Personally, I would choose a Spyderco Lock-back.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
Actually, the Spyderco Police model is geared more toward what you're looking for in a duty knife, hence the model name. This knife has been in the Spyderco catalog for years, it is one of their longest lived models. Sal has listened to the needs (and wants) of policemen over the years and has refined this model knife accordingly. First off, it's tip-down so quick Spyderdrop openings are possible. The heavy stainless handle permits the knife to be used as a door knocker and the "uncomfortably sharp" handle end makes a nice tool for pressure-point work. The blade itself is nice and long (pointy too). And the serrations cut like a chainsaw. Seatbelt nylon simply jumps apart under it.

I'm sure there's a bunch of features I've left off this list. The Police is a great knife that just disappears in your pocket because of the thin profile. Deserves a close look. ;)
 
I have both blades...and can say that it wouldn't be an easy choice pick one to give up! :cool: Once you have both in hand, you can definitely make your own assessment about lock failure.

One should mention, the Native has a "choil". In case you aren't familiar with the term, a choil is a curve in the blade between the blade edge and the handle.

Look again at this Native pic from Esav's post...the choil is the "dimple" near the handle.

This means that properly gripped, you will have a finger positioned on the blade, adding reinforcement to keeping the edge open even if the lock were accidentally disengaged. I feel this provides a sure grip on the knife overall when holding the blade in the "normal" open position.

The Grip is tip-up carry, the Native is tip down. Many feel that tip-up provides a surer grip for self-defense as you don't have to reverse the handle in your hand to open the blade.

Both come with FRN handles, and in all honesty I think I'd prefer to use my Native as a beater just because I think the Grip is a good "gentleman's" knife (albeit slightly tactical :cool:).

Either way, I think you'll be happy with your purchases! I recommend the Grip in D2 which you can order from Cabela's, and the Native in S30V which you can find at a few Wal-Mart Super Centers.
 
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