Best way to practice sharpening?

Atlas Knife Company

Atlas Knife Company

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Feb 16, 2010
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What's the best way to learn to sharpen? I've got a 2x72 and a buffer with a paper and a cloth wheel. I've been hitting them with a worn out 220(once per side), paper wheel(twice per side), cloth wheel(3x per side), finishing with the the dual porcelain rod(3x per side) sharpener from the fishing department. When I was a kid I always tried using a sharpening stone but the knives usually came out duller than when I started. I'm getting decent results with this method but I have a recently finished knife that I want to get really, really sharp.

Should I grab a few super cheap knives, grind the edge flat and re-sharpen? Or, is there a better way?

As to technique, flat platen or slack?

Dual 15° angles about right? I'm sure I'll have more questions as people point out things.

Thanks in advance.
Charles
 
zaph1 said:
What's the best way to learn to sharpen? I've got a 2x72 and a buffer with a paper and a cloth wheel. I've been hitting them with a worn out 220(once per side), paper wheel(twice per side), cloth wheel(3x per side), finishing with the the dual porcelain rod(3x per side) sharpener from the fishing department. When I was a kid I always tried using a sharpening stone but the knives usually came out duller than when I started. I'm getting decent results with this method but I have a recently finished knife that I want to get really, really sharp.

Should I grab a few super cheap knives, grind the edge flat and re-sharpen? Or, is there a better way?

As to technique, flat platen or slack?

Dual 15° angles about right? I'm sure I'll have more questions as people point out things.

Thanks in advance.
Charles
Click to expand...

Morning Charles,

Twelve degrees per side for a wide knife [1 1/2" ] ten degrees per side for a thinner knife; such as a fillet knife is the standard.
As far as technique goes there are many different ways to achieve the same result.
This is how I sharpen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ODlCMn_G-M
I believe that removing the wire edge in one piece is the way to get the sharpest edge.

This is just my way; there are many other ways to accomplish this.

I hope other makers with other solutions will post.

Fred
 
Stay away from wheels etc. there are guys that make money off of selling paper wheel systems who will tell you to go with them, having sharpened knives professionally I would have to say go with Diamond stones (I personally use DMT) or if you need something with guides get the Lansky system and upgrade to diamond stones. Roman Landes has done research on what happens to an edge when sharpening dry which indicates that just using a regular stone dry overheats the steel right at the extreme edge which causes premature edge degradation. Based on that I strongly recommend always keeping the edge. wet with either oil or water.

-Page
 
Stay away from the stones, they take toooooo much time and the paper wheels put a mirror finish in no time at all. To practice with my paper wheels I went to a goodwill or 2nd hand store, garage sale? If you can get a set of knifes they make good/sharp presents.
 
diamond stones are the best paper wheels are for cheaters. useing a stone takes practice, but I think it is better in the long run. the way I do it is I get the angle I want on the course stone, then on the medium I do 10 strokes on the right, 10 on the left, 9 on the right 9 on the left ... all the way to 1, then I swich to the fine stone, and repeat, same thing for extra fine. this process can be simplifyed somewhat depending on the degree of edge degredation, or amount of available patience.

sunshadow, tell me more about sharpening dry, I do not use any fluid, because the daimond stones dont need it to clean them.
 
In my mind, there is no cheating when it comes to sharpening. I typically put a convex belt finish on my knives. If I need a more specific edge angle, I have an Edge Pro Apex that works great with water stones from 115 grit all the way up to X000 grit polishing tapes. I've talked to a number of makers who use paper wheels who have nothing to gain from them, and they tell me that they can put a wicked edge on a knife pretty quickly.

If it gets it sharp, use what works best for you.

--nathan
 
This is a great topic. Where is that popcorn smiley?

I love this topic because there are respected craftsmen in every corner - using hugely divergent information and technique - and yet still respected. Lansky will tell you 17 degrees per side is a very fine edge. Others will tell you that 17 per side is 34 included - useful only for axes.

Some say the only way to get good results is with absolute angle control - and others, including my dad - could get a great durable edge on a stone freehand.

I have all the toys - but I'd sure like to be able to do it as a craftsman - freehand with stones. I think the answer is practice.....

By the way, don't get freaked out by the guys who tell you hair jumps off their arm in fear of the approaching blade. They are full of s**t.

Rob!
 
Rob, I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of, umm, seasoned makers here who have put a good enough edge on a blade to scare hair straight off of their head ;) :D.

--nathan
 
I sharpen professionally also, and I have had excellent results using stones, belts, and paper wheels as well. All three methods have their strong points and are worthwhile options. I think the important thing with any of these methods is simply practicing enough to make sure you are sharpening consistently at the proper angle for whatever blade you are working on. I say try them all out and see which works best for you:thumbup:
 
I have always sharpened freehand on stones or diamond, and my suggestion would be diamond stones, a sharpie, good lighting, and a magnifying glass. Spend some time taking single strokes with the edge colored with the marker, so you can see where you are contacting the stone with each pass. The magnifying glass will help with this even if you have good eyesight.
Sharpening is really the same as grinding or hand-finishing a bevel, depending on your method. It is just done on a much smaller scale and all the same skills apply, the main difference when doing it freehand is that you don't get feedback from a flat surface bearing on another flat surface to guide you. Thus the time with the sharpie and the glass.
I know a lot of guys use grinders but I have to suggest against it for sharpening most knives unless you have a unit that can run at slow speed. The amount of metal you have to remove for most sharpening is minimal and there is little time lost between the stones and the grinder, in my experience. Thin edges can over-heat in an eyeblink on a grinder and there is no reason to take off more steel than is necessary.
 
sunshadow, i tell people about the paper wheels but i dont make anything from it. they are a good product and work well and if it were another product, i would tell people about it just the same.

charles, you seen what the paper wheels can do. i sent you the slotted wheel so you can sharpen your knives. learn how to work up a burr on your belt sander and finish off the edge with the slotted wheel.

after re reading your question, to practice sharpening, get an old hacksaw blade or hit up some yard sales and pick up some old knives.
 
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Since I like cooking I care about keeping my knives sharp. I am not a freaking expert though, so don't take this as a bible.

I use stones, mostly waterstones, but when I get a very dull knife or I want to change the existing geometry and I need to remove lots of metal I use a cheap aluminum oxide stone.
For maintaining a edge you can start with something like 800 ot 1000 grit waterstone and then polish the edge with a 4000 or 6000 grit one. Stropping the edge using a piece of leather and green chromium compound can help you, although according to "Experiments on Knife Sharpening" by prof John Verhoeven it is not necessary if you use the stones properly.
I believe Mr Appelt made a similar comment in a different thread.

Something that helps me a lot is using a tilted stone. It is way easier to be consistent at keeping the blade horizontal than to hold it at say 15 deg every time. This is particularly important if you are using small angles.

Look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EP9tII6Tp7s&feature=related

My first "tilted plane sharpener" was improvised out of cardboard and I had to cover it with a plastic bag so the water did not destroy it. Then I made a better one using two boards and a hinge. I can lock it at 15, 20 and 25 degs. If you make one, I suggest you to add some kind of border to the top plane, so the stone is held in place in case friction is not enough. Do not make those borders too tall nor too wide, otherwise they interfere with the knife movements.

I don't know if you have read it already but a good source of information is this:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/26036-knife-maintenance-and-sharpening/

in spite of its not focusing too much on using waterstones.

Finally, it is a good idea to practice on cheap knives, just make sure they are not TOO cheap. When I decided to learn how to sharpen, I used a couple of brand-less Chinese knives that were in my apartment (rented furnished and equipped). Try as I might, I could not make them sharp. I was afraid I was doing something VERY wrong and thought that sharpening was really a black art reserved for the chosen ones. Then I tried with a still very cheap Henckels International and I got it shaving sharp in no time. Then I got my Forschner, resharpened with 15 deg bevels and a 20 deg microbevel and was hair popping.

Hope that helps
 
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