better before, than after...

Lorien

Lorien

Nose to the Grindstone
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Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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Dec 5, 2005
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It's awesome to get feedback on something that has been made. Could it be better to get feedback before a thing has been made?

We'll see...

IMG_0662.jpg


Very interested to read your impressions of this design, nice and/or nasty:)
 
Looks like there's some barong action going on for sure... :thumbup:

The lack of a choil and or guard scares my fingers though; seems like an accident waiting to happen. Just my 0.02. It's definitely a sleeker design without those elements.

The thought of a uni directional carbon fibre handle on that knife is too awesome!

Czech
 
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Reminds me a bit of this one:

orig.jpg


I like the swedge and curved plunge.

Roger
 
thanks for posting that Roger! That's the knife I was thinking of when I designed this one- it's one of the few semi integral choppers I've seen, and most certainly my favorite of all!
 
I like the blade and handle shape, but I would definitly drop the blade a bit at the handle, or maybe an integral guard. I guess I like my fingers to much!! :D
 
I had a nice conversation with Chuck, (Alpha Knife Supply) who taught me many interesting things while purchasing some 1 1/8" bar stock, (CruforgeV) for this project.

So, the project is moving forward.

In the concept sketch, the pin looks to be around 1/8", however, we have some 1/4" bar stock, (CP titanium) on its way to the mystery knife maker. The reason for this choice has everything to do with Chuck's sage advice.

He advised me, that an engraved pin does amazing things for a knife and that cp ti is the good stuff for the job.

We discussed flowers, skulls, scroll engraving, bunch of different things. When I suggested the idea to the mystery knife maker, I jokingly suggested having a pot plant leaf engraved on the pin. The knife maker suggested a maple leaf, (same thought had crossed my mind as well).

What do you think about engraved pins? Got any ideas for a graphic treatment?

ps. critique of the design is still welcome, it hasn't been started yet.
 
Handle is too rounded for my tastes on a blade like this. A bit more drop, and a pinch more rise at the back of the handle to act as a check. Otherwise, I dig the lines.

I hope the smith that's doing this has a press or a power hammer - 1-1/8" round stock SUCKS to work down with a hand hammer!!!!!!!


Maple leaf engraving is a nice touch.
 
I like the looks.

I used to be scared of no guard (including Gaucho style where the edge drop protects the fingers, and brut de forge (sp?), Puko, and traditional barongs etc). For some reason, the older I get, the better I like these designs now.

I don't know if its because I have less need/desire for those designs (IE large guards, top and bottom, et).
 
Matthew Gregory said:
Handle is too rounded for my tastes on a blade like this. A bit more drop, and a pinch more rise at the back of the handle to act as a check. Otherwise, I dig the lines.

I hope the smith that's doing this has a press or a power hammer - 1-1/8" round stock SUCKS to work down with a hand hammer!!!!!!!


Maple leaf engraving is a nice touch.
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that's what I'm talking about! Thank you for your input, Matthew.

As for the no guard thing, I'm planning on a leather or paracord 'd' guard type thing. There will be a lanyard hole at the butt of the handle as well.
 
Hey Lorien. What's the design theory behind the blade coming all the way up to the bolster instead of having a dropped edge like in Russ Andrews' version?

I can imagine it's so the drop doesn't get caught on brush but it could be made so that anything would slide off. I just think you would get a better edge near the ricasso if the thickest part of the knife wasn't also the shallowest in height. That will probably have a pretty obtuse edge geometry which, since you don't really chop there, wouldn't be that useful... except perhaps batonning (sp?).

I find that part of the knife a little aesthetically disturbing. The edge to ricasso to handle junction looks a little difficult to keep flowing. Throw in there the curved plunge and the non-parallel vertical lines of the bolster and what looks like a pinch at that point at the spine as well...

Like I said, it's aesthetic but my eye really get's stuck there.

I'd like to see a brighter, more contrasted photo so I could read your notes to understand the thicknesses and such. I know I'm Canadian but I'm losing you with the metric sizings. :p:p

Looks like a good bushwhacker though.
 
Lorien,
So with your responses to Matt Gregory and Roger, I'm assuming that this is going to be an integral from a round stock? If it is then why would you have a plunge too?

With the plunge there it looks like it's designed to have a separate bolster instead of an integral transition. I think Stuart probably is assuming a non integral with a bolster because of the existence of the plunge as well.
 
SBranson said:
Hey Lorien. What's the design theory behind the blade coming all the way up to the bolster instead of having a dropped edge like in Russ Andrews' version?

I can imagine it's so the drop doesn't get caught on brush but it could be made so that anything would slide off. I just think you would get a better edge near the ricasso if the thickest part of the knife wasn't also the shallowest in height. That will probably have a pretty obtuse edge geometry which, since you don't really chop there, wouldn't be that useful... except perhaps batonning (sp?).

I find that part of the knife a little aesthetically disturbing. The edge to ricasso to handle junction looks a little difficult to keep flowing. Throw in there the curved plunge and the non-parallel vertical lines of the bolster and what looks like a pinch at that point at the spine as well...

Like I said, it's aesthetic but my eye really get's stuck there.

I'd like to see a brighter, more contrasted photo so I could read your notes to understand the thicknesses and such. I know I'm Canadian but I'm losing you with the metric sizings. :p:p

Looks like a good bushwhacker though.
Click to expand...

yeah, sorry about the photo. I took a picture before I realized this knife would actually be made.

As for the 'obtusity' of the bevel directly in front of the ricasso, you nailed it. A chopper such as this sees most of its action 2/3 of the way toward the tip, (otherwise known as 'sweet spot'). The edge nearest the ricasso rarely gets used for a working knife such as this, (ime), so my thinking was that, with the edge starting an inch or more forward of the front of the bolster, I could choke up on the knife for more tip control while still allowing flexibility in moving my hand around the handle without anything getting in the way.

Many big knives these days incorporate a guard, and have a finger depression in front of it. To my mind, this is too much of a 'preset' grip which allows very little flexibility, and nowhere for your index finger to move to should something happen which would make you want to move your finger away from the line of fire, ie; things sliding up the edge toward your hand. Ultimately though, this design borrows fairly heavily from traditional barong designs, most of which have a smooth transition from handle to blade.

The other concept I'm playing around with here has to do with weight and balance. The fact that there is a plunge line is secondary to the fact that a fair amount of material is left at the mid point of the knife. I want a 'weighty' knife, but for the weight to be centered- not out toward the tip. The knife is designed for OOMPH and tip control.

That's about all I can think of atm in answer to your excellent questions/observations, and I will give it more thought. You laid out a lot of stuff there!

Oh, and check this out, (I find it VERY handy); http://www.worldwidemetric.com/measurements.html
 
The concept looks beautiful. I'm going through a barong phase right now, and this is just right up my ally.
 
I don't get the integral bolster and the plunge line.
I would drop the edge a bit near the bolster and give the handle a bit more "height" in the midsection.
 
I'm getting the impression that having a plunge line on this integral isn't a popular choice, and you know, the more I look at the drawing, the more I tend to agree.
I've seen integrals with a seperate plunge line forward of the bolster, but I think you guys are right; it doesn't make a lot of sense for this one. Just for the looks alone, I think that nixing the plunge will clean up the design a lot.

just did a quick thing on ye olde computer;
barong.jpg
 
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I like this much more already. I was thinking you could soften that transition from "bolster" area to the blade to mimic the plunge you had and still maintain mass without the double drop of the first design.. (if you know what I mean.)

Then again, I'm not sure how one would grind the resultant "bowl"..
 
parang with skulllllzzzzz.:D Just kidding. An interesting project, If you haven't used Cru Forge before, I think you will be pleased. The bad news is that you won't be seeing it anymore.
 
SBranson said:
I like this much more already. I was thinking you could soften that transition from "bolster" area to the blade to mimic the plunge you had and still maintain mass without the double drop of the first design.. (if you know what I mean.)

Then again, I'm not sure how one would grind the resultant "bowl"..
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I know exactly what you mean! Man, if that could even be done, that would be amazing!

Joe, from what I understand talking with Chuck, CruforgeV is still readily available. Only thing is that it's only available in limited sizing and thickness. AKS might be able to arrange a wider array of sizing in the future.

I have a knife from Matt Gregory made from CruforgeV and the edge holding is incredible. The knife in this video is ground SUPER thin- definitely pushing the limits for doing stuff like this; [video]http://www.pinkbike.com/video/211502/[/video] (password is gregory). And it's been out a few other times, still haven't had to touch up the edge which still pops hairs. Very stable, very wear resistant.

The 1 1/8" bar stock this knife will use will be worked down with a 20 ton, (?) hammer and cost me about $40
 
Lorien, Aldo called up about the last unrolled billet and Niagra had sold it, allegedly to some company out west that makes hoof knives. I e-mailed the folks in Arlington and they said they didn't have any more flat or round bar and were no longer going to be carrying it. I get the impression that what is still out there in the hands of guys like Chuck and that company that bought the last billet. Unless someone can get Crucible or some other mill to make another run of it, I fear that it has gone the way of the dodo. I have about 200 pounds, the majority the 1 1/4 inch bar and I am sure that some guys like Dan Farr who were involved in the project are sitting on some.
Lorien said:
I know exactly what you mean! Man, if that could even be done, that would be amazing!

Joe, from what I understand talking with Chuck, CruforgeV is still readily available. Only thing is that it's only available in limited sizing and thickness. AKS might be able to arrange a wider array of sizing in the future.

I have a knife from Matt Gregory made from CruforgeV and the edge holding is incredible. The knife in this video is ground SUPER thin- definitely pushing the limits for doing stuff like this; [video]http://www.pinkbike.com/video/211502/[/video] (password is gregory). And it's been out a few other times, still haven't had to touch up the edge which still pops hairs. Very stable, very wear resistant.

The 1 1/8" bar stock this knife will use will be worked down with a 20 ton, (?) hammer and cost me about $40
Click to expand...
 
get it while you can, eh!
 
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