Better corrosion resistant high carbon steel

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unky_gumbi

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Aug 28, 2009
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So I have a WIP going right now on three Bowie styled blades all in O-1. I was planning of using one of them for the Christmas KITH this year, but ran into what seems to be an alloy banding problem with the piece of steel I bought locally back during our postal strike up here. I haven't even sent the one I was going to use for the KITH out for HT yet, but the banding problem has me concerned that it may not make the best KITH knife. I was going to just order another piece of O-1 from my normal supplier, but this morning I was looking at the first knife from the WIP that is almost done and noticed it is starting to pit from the humidity here. I hadn't waxed or oiled it yet because I still need to put my makers mark on it, I was going to do that today:o

That put a second wrench into my planned KITH knife:( I am still going to make a KITH knife, and still going with the same design, but I think I need to change my steel type for it. I want the steel to get here ASAP to give me the most time to make the best knife I can for the KITH and would like to stay with high carbon steel so that limits me to only a few steels available to me this side of the border.

The steels available to me right now are:
  • 1075 Carbon Steel
  • 1084 Carbon Steel
  • 1095 Carbon Steel
  • 52100 Flat Bar
  • CPM D2
  • CPM3V
  • O1 Tool steel, from my regular supplier and never had these problems before with O-1
  • W2

I don't do my own HT so there is no worries on my being able to HT the steel, kind of rules out a nice hamon with W2 thought:o

I am leaning towards the CPM D2 in 5/32" but am open to suggestions. Ordering from Aldo is out of the question right now due to the time factor. Ordering anything from the states puts in a time variable that I am not willing to risk for this project. I ordered a handle block from Burl Source in the beginning of August and it never showed up:( he sent out a replacement last week, but I will be looking for a back up close to home if that one doesn't make it here before the end of this month.

Yeah I know 2.5 months seems like a long time but I want to make the best knife I can so time runs out fast when you are looking for perfection:o I want to order the replacement/backup piece by the end of this week or early next so all suggestion will be considered. the knife design in question can be seen here if that make a difference. The original may still be used, I am just preparing for the worst case scenario is all, besides can you have too much steel:p
 
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Unky,
Why not go with a stainless like CPM154? You can get it and have it heat treated at KnifeMaker Supply.CA Rob does a great job on service!!! As well I feel stainless is far more acceptable by collectors unless it's Damascus. This is nice stuff to grind and finish. Frank
 
I'm curious as to where you got your O-1 from? Being in Canada I generally grab mine from Rob because he will cut it to length but I have never had an issue with my O-1 from him (Recently ordered ~3 feet from him). My current batch is mostly O-1 from Jantz...

This concerns me too as I can quite recall what O-1 I used for which knives in the batch... and like you I don't want my KITH blade to end up banding or have pitting issues...
 
I got the O-1 locally from Pinkus Tire and Steel during the postal strike. I normally buy from Rob and never had a problem like this with his O-1.

I did think about going with 154 but I really like the results I get with HC tool steels and Rob does all my HTing because I love the personal service I get and the end product is better than I could ask for:thumbup:
 
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I have heard of D2 referred to as "semi-stainless" as it has almost enough chromium to be considered a stainless steel.
 
D2, especially CPM-D2 is a very good all-around steel. It won't rust as easily as O1 or 1084, but it also won't take a nice patina with use. It will just pit. It does cut very well, for a pretty long time but it's kind of a pain to sharpen.

The problem with looking for a more-or-less corrosion resistant high carbon steel is that you're kind of trying to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine. Those types of tool steels have some chromium in them for the carbides and resulting wear-resistance, they're not really designed for corrosion-resistance. If that's what you want, you need to step up to 14% chromium or more. CPM-154 is an excellent "stainless" steel and beats D2 hands down across the board in my experience/opinion. CTS-XHP is even better.

Stick with traditional high carbon steels when you want them, and modern high-quality stainless when you want those. The rest are kind of middle-of-the-road and don't excell in either category. CPM-3V kind of stands alone because it's really tough and holds an edge with the very best of either class.
 
I am not looking for a more or less corrosion resistant high carbon steel, just something that wont rust over night:p

I personally like the high carbon steels I have worked with so far, and never had a problem till this time. What it did do is get me thinking about how well the knife would travel to its new home since it would go through a few cold warm cycles traveling from here to where ever its new home will be in December. Any how I am leaning towards the CPM D2, I have a folder in D2 and have never had any real problems with it rusting. I did get a touch of surface rust on it once but it wiped off with no pitting or staining. Not much of a problem for me to sharpen either, takes a bit longer, but boy does it get sharp and stay sharp for a long time.

I will be ordering Friday or Monday, most likely CPM D2 and recreating either my recurve bowie or full flat bowie. Even got a nice handle block in today for the KITH knife, only 6 weeks after it was shipped and Burl Source shipped out a replacement because we thought it was lost:( Mark is getting a free knife from me for him being a stand up guy:thumbup:

On a bit of a side note, if I wanted rust proof I would go with 440C:p I found a knife in the bottom of a sump hole today that is 440C. It was my knife while I was in the army back in 85. I thought I had lost it in a move or something, but cleaning out the sump hole I found it. Back around 87 we had a shelf let go and it dumped everything onto the sump hole, we thought we had gotten everything, but I guess we were wrong because that is where the missing knife was:eek: So 25 years going back and forth from wet to dry and the blade is in as good of condition as the last day I used it. The sheath and paint on the aluminum handle are a different story:(
 
CPM-D2 will indeed hold up very well in the conditions you describe. (normal stuff, not the being buried in a sump hole part! :eek:) It also takes a very nice polish if you want. Sorry if I came across as snotty.
 
No you didn't come across as being snotty in the least, so don't worry about it:thumbup: I actually have 3 knives in 154CM ready for HT, its just that my finances keep me to only getting 2 done at a time right now and with me being some what of a compulsive spender trying to save the money to send everything out at once to save a bit on shipping just doesn't work that well:( One of them is making it out as soon as I get paid.

I really do like my high carbon tool steels though just because of the edge they take, and the only fancy stainless I have any real experience with in use is my 154cm mini grip. It takes a nice edge and holds it well, just not at the level that I can get my other knives to. One of these days I am going to step up to some S30V or one of the other super steels and make myself something so I can experience it for myself. In the long run if you give your knives the proper care and attention they deserve HC steel will look good for a long time.
 
Unky, you are being reasonable, thoughtful and basing your requirements and desires on proven, repeatable factors that don't need hocus-pocus to sound cool.

What the heck are you thinking?!? :D ;)

Seriously, I commend your approach.
 
Unky,

Do you have the means to normalize/anneal your steel. I see you send out for Ht. If you can I would stick with O1. Do a couple of normalizing cycles and the alloy banding should be taken care of. It is a great steel and if you just oil or wax it as you mentioned it should not rust overnight. The only time I have any problems is when I leave a freshly ground blade bare. If there is ANY steel dust on it at all it will speed up the rust. At the end of the day I spray a light coat of oil on the blades and wipe them down. Lay them on a clean paper towel and go on about my business. I do cover them if I have to leave them for more than a day. I live in an area that varies greatly in humidity. The process I described works great even when it is pouring down rain outside. If you buy new O1 make sure it is full spheroidized annealed. This to will help with the banding. Good luck and take care.
 
James I am a very simple easy going person, I don't need anything fancy as long as it works for me. That is unless you look at my mountain bikes, they are just a bit of overkill:eek:

Chuck all I have for a heat source right now is a coffee can forge that runs on hand held propane torches. I know that it gets above 1425F and will take steel to non magnetic if given the time, but I don't think it will normalize or anneal steel with any consistency. I am looking to build a real forge over the winter with a temp control, sooner if I find the right forge body for the right price. I was supposed to be getting a big back pay check from WCB, but they decided that the last 4 months don't count so that killed my plans of getting an Evenheat kiln:( As much as I like working with O-1 I think the next couple of knives, after I finish the three I am working on, are going to be CPM D2 just because I have too much riding on them. I will most likely go back to O-1 after that, but I will only buy from a knife supply store. I think that maybe that is where the real problem started.

I have some 1084, and a bit of W2 coming in that I want to experiment with. I really want to see if I can do a nice hamon, hence the need for a better and consistent heat source.
 
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