Better hamon on 1095 thanks to the forge & advice

Chiro75

Chiro75

Joined
Feb 4, 1999
Messages
5,786
Well, I'm finally starting to get nicer hamon on my 1095 knives, thanks mostly to the new forge. When I was open air heating the clay absorbed most of the heat. Now the clay is glowing bright red/orange when I quench. A lot of my hamon were surprising when they would come out before. I think the clay was absorbing so much heat that it insulated about 1-2mm past where it ended, so I'd layer the clay on kind of wavy, then the hamon would come out flat and a lot lower than I expected on the blade. Here are a couple of pics describing that, followed by a couple pics of what I did over the weeken. I'd like to strike a happy medium between wavy, but not unnatural looking. Always something to work on! Also, using lighter pressure on my 600-1000 grit sandpapers made a dramatic difference in the clarity of the hamon. Grinds are getting better, too! :D

Old ones (I like these, too, though!)
topkoa2-6.jpg


tacticalorangepeelerblk1-2.jpg


Latest ones:
top6-4.jpg


top6-5new.jpg


top7-1.jpg
 
Looking good! Now that you've become successful, why don't you take me through your hamon process (using 1095) from the beginning to the final finish. I'd like to have this as a reference.
Thanks!
 
I'm with rhrocker. I've tried clay-coating 1095 and have had it crack every time. I'd especially like to see what your clay-coat looks like before you austenitize, if you're willing.

-Allin
 
$50 a piece, then I'll talk! I'll REMEMBER to take pics of the process next time. Description will get written, too. Don't know if it's the right way, but it's my way and it seems to work. Now if I could only get O1 to cooperate I'd be a happy camper. :grumpy: Kahrl, I quench in oil (used to use vegetable oil, now I'm using auto transmission fluid and I love it, although it stinks). I also use 1/8" thick stock with a thin, high flat grind. Don't know if that makes a diff, though. More info soon.
 
Looks like you got it this time !! Dramatic difference noted. You're even getting a nice "turn-back" at the front of the hamon. Are you hooked now ?

Regarding the clay cracking. Firstly, you need to make sure the blade surface is absolutely clean - no oils or residues, otherwise the clay won't stick no matter what. You need to ensure that at least the first layer is well adhered to the steel. It helps to use a surface finish no finer than 120grit. Then, you need to ensure that the clay is well dried on - it can several days at room temperature. A heat gun or using a plumbers blow torch can hurry up the process. That should take care of the cracking issue almost 100%.

If the clay cracks off several seconds into the quench, a couple of things can be considered.

#1 - the blade is bending - AS IT SHOULD, with the differential hardening.

#2 - if you are EDGE QUENCHING, and the clay falls off several seconds into the quench, you should be OK, as the main work of the quench and clay should be done. You are better off leaving it in the quenchant and not panicking.

#3 - if you are full quenching (dipping entire blade in quenchant), and the clay falls off several seconds (10-15seconds) into the quench, you could still be OK. Still better to leave it in to get a fuller, rather than a lesser quench. You need to check.

#4 - if it falls off the very moment you go into the quench, you could end up with a fully hardened blade. I suppose you could consider this a "failed" attempt at a hamon, but you can use this to your advantage - re-do the clay and the hamon, and you could end up with interesting finish effects with what is effectively a double-hardened edge. I do this intentionally to get various grain effects above the hamon which looks like woodgrain, even though the blade isn't a folded steel blade.

Hope this makes sense. Jason.
 
I've been doing clay coated stuff for almost two years now, but with the newer equipment I can do more knives, and therefore, refine things faster, so yes, of course, I am hooked! :D I was able to finish three blades (no handles or sheaths yet) from start to finish this weekend. Slow for some people, but back in the day when I was using hand tools that was half a year! :D

I thought Kahrl meant he was cracking the blades. Probably water quench, but maybe his brine is cold or not salty enough. I use ATF or veggie oil and it works fine.

Jason, my main problem before was building enough heat to get the area right up to the clay hot enough to go critical. Impossible (well, close to it), without a forge/kiln setup.
 
Cool, I love the way traditional clay harding looks. I like the later blades better, I don't like too shallow a quench line or hamon, with a good bit of use you can run out of hard edge. Looks like the latest ones are a good comprimise.
 
Steve, you're right. My blades are cracking. I know my brine is salty enough, but it is cold (room temp). I usually put the bucket on the drill press with a paint stirrer in the chuck and wind it up. It makes a nice big whirlpool and definitely agitates sufficiently. But, if the cold brine causes problems, that would make sense. It does seem to be the hardness of the edge and not the shock of the initial quench that does it; the cracks always seem to form as the spine cools and shrinks under the clay. Before that, the edge always seems fine.

But, maybe I ought to be trying oil. Thanks for the advise.

I'd still love to see what your clay applications look like.

-Allin
 
I think brine is supposed to be warm/hot if I'm not mistaken. I'll take some pics on future knives. It's hard because I don't always remember until too late in the process, and with dirty hands I don't want to gunk my camera up. Plus, I have to stop what I'm doing, take a few pics, start up again, stop, take some pics, etc. I don't know anyone patient enough to take pics for me! But, I'll get some done. Water is supposed to be a more "violent" quenching medium and when you look at a lot of hamon on a lot of different steels you'll really be able to tell the difference. I get really clean lines with my process, but I'm looking forward to experimenting a little more to get those crazy Don Fogg hamon that are like a storm on the horizon.
 
Will, that's a valid point about shallow hardened zones. The way I see it is when the time comes, if they've sharpened to the point that the knife edge is into the softer areas, then they'll either be happy to retire the knife, or, they can send it to someone to pop that scales off, clean it up, normalize it and give it a new heat treat!

Here's a teaser pic of a new "model" (hard to say that since I freehand everything without templates) called the Fusion Hunter. Also 1095, 1/8" thick, this time with a 2 9/16" blade that is fully convex ground (with a little bevel for normal sharpening, too) and clay coated HT:


fusionhunterteaser.jpg
 
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