Better steel for CRK's

BBQ BOY

BBQ BOY

Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
2,820
I love my CRK's. However, I do have a complaint and that is edge retention. I just finished sharpening my small micarta , which has been barely used since getting it fresh from CRK a few months ago. I can't believe how dull it has gotten from basically sitting in my pocket. This has been one thing I have noticed across the board with all 9 of my CRK's. I don't have this issue with other steels from other manufactures.
Will the new S30VN or whatever it is have better edge retention?
 
The S30V has a low Rc to provide easier sharpening. I am guessing the trade off is edge retention. I noticed the same thing with my Umnumzaan. If the newer S35VN is at the saem Rc you can expect teh same of that steel (I would imagine).
 
I would suggest if you've not really used your knife, but rather just carried it in your pocket, and still think it's getting dull, I would suggest using a steel or strop on the edge rather than resharpen it. Could be that the edge was just too fine, and rolled some.
 
Mike,

There has been a long running debate on whether or not the S30V in Reeve knives is hardened "enough". It lead to many lamenting the change in 2002 from BG42 (at 60-61RC) to S30V (at 58-59RC). CR is emphatic that the change was for the better, but there is significant disagreement amongst the enthusiasts. Chris has always said that the consistency of the powder metallugy process makes for a longer lasting "usable" edge vs. the older "vacuum melt" processed BG42. It may not hold a razor edge as long, but holds a usable edge longer - whatever that means.

For me, the current steel is fine for everything I need. I keep my edges at 40º total (20º per side) and they'll shave hair consistently, and last reasonably long for my "hard" uses like cardboard, letters, the occasional apple, etc. I can also take a fairly dull edge back to shaving in less than 15 minutes on my Sharpmaker, so that's something too. Stropping is pretty effective to for touch-ups vs. using the rods every time.

Fooj can give you a more detailed background on Chris' viewpoint that I can, but that's it in a nutshell.
 
I bought a Large Sebenza and an Umnumzaan mid 2010, and I have only stropped each since then.

I haven't really experienced a noticeable problem, but my usage may not be on par with yours.

CRK S30V has worked well for me.

I notice a slight improvement with edge retention with my Nyala with S35V, but only slight.
 
It's funny reading this thread. When I got my first Sebenza (for Christmas this year) one thing I noticed is that it made me remember why I LOVE S30V. It may not keep its razor sharp hair popping edge for very long, but it stays slicing sharp it seems forever. I can cut up what seems like an obcene amount of cardboard (say about a dozen large 36x24x24 boxes into 12x12 squares for recycling) with no perceivable difference in slicing performance from beginning to end. For me this is great. A working edge that lasts.

And I get get it hair popping sharp again in less than 10 minutes with the sharpmaker.

What's not to love???

ThumperACC
 
There's no free lunch...I love the CRK BG-42 blade I've got but there is no question that it takes more time to sharpen than the S30V. I figure it all equals out...both are fine. I have an S35VN Mule and while it's nice it didn't shock me as a miracle steel.
 
Steel is a world of give and take I think s30 is right in the middle of the road there is no need for an ultra hard steel in a utility knife. The knife needs to keep a good utility edge and be easy to sharpen and s30 is all that. If you dont like it dont buy it... Simple as that...more for me

Bg 42 is great but hard to sharpen in the field to a useable edge it also liked to chip out if you were not careful. So sure it could keep that razor edge for longer but at the risk of chipping or breaking the blade if you misused the knife. If you want stupid sharp get a blade with a zdp 189 core but then if your not careful you will chip the edge and be ready to sharpen with a diamond stone.

The sebenza is a working knife not a razor or a ninja sword.
 
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I concur with ThumperACC, I do exactly the same thing for my EDC folder knife (Small Sebenza 21) and I have experienced the same effect after slicing some cardboard, the working edge last forever. I also use the sharpmaker and I can get a razor edge in less than 15 min, I can get the same razor edge with a strop and some green compound. For the type of work I use my CR knives, the edge and edge retention work for me.
 
Quote from the man:

"My choice to change our folding knife blade steel to S30V was thoroughly thought through, as was the selection of RC hardness 58-59. I was privileged to be involved in the development of S30V with the metallurgists at Crucible Steel – they asked what attributes I wanted in a steel and they delivered. At RC 58-59, the blade will hold a good edge and will be easy enough to sharpen. One of our tests resulted in S30V cutting 14,000 linear inches of e-flute cardboard before notable edge wear against 12,000 for BG42. I have been completely satisfied with the performance of S30V."
 
There have been a lot of threads on this topic. I wish they would just use cpm154 already and let go of soft s30v. I know they were involved with designing it but there are much better options available now.
 
Maybe wrong forum, but if i strop my knife twice a week is there ever any real need to go to the sharpmaker? This is my first knife with s30v.
 
peter r said:
one failing of the sebenza, its edge retention. s35vn will be better.
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It's not a failing, it's a preference. The edge retention on a Sebenza at 58-59 RC is still better then other steels, on top of being very stainless and tough.

I think they made the right call. Not everyone who buys a CRK is a AFI looking for outstanding edge retention.
 
scotsmanspride said:
Maybe wrong forum, but if i strop my knife twice a week is there ever any real need to go to the sharpmaker? This is my first knife with s30v.
Click to expand...

That depends on the use and the state the edge is in.

All in all it is personal preference. Every steel has its tradeoffs and advantages. Give me a CR in D2 and I would be happy and that steel has been available since WW2 if I am not mistaken.

Every 'new' steel has a certain hype around it. CTS-XHP got people talking! now the hype is gone down and only a few knives are using it....CPM-M4....people were lining up at the door now people are calming down a bit again....same with ZDP etc etc...

One will never be able to get all the steels in a knife or as soon as one might think you have the latest and greatest there is something else in the works that will improve on it. Spyderco does their best to offer us as many as possible.

CRK uses S30V and that is what it is available in. One day maybe S35VN. Just use it no matter the steel!
 
I'd put a microbevel on.

I had to sharpen my Lg. Sebenza once a week with just a standard bevel, but when I got my Startac Umnumzaan I put a microbevel on it and i only have to sharpen it once every 2 weeks to a month.

This is with everyday use as an electrician, so it gets used.
 
marthinus said:
That depends on the use and the state the edge is in.

All in all it is personal preference. Every steel has its tradeoffs and advantages. Give me a CR in D2 and I would be happy and that steel has been available since WW2 if I am not mistaken.

Every 'new' steel has a certain hype around it. CTS-XHP got people talking! now the hype is gone down and only a few knives are using it....CPM-M4....people were lining up at the door now people are calming down a bit again....same with ZDP etc etc...

One will never be able to get all the steels in a knife or as soon as one might think you have the latest and greatest there is something else in the works that will improve on it. Spyderco does their best to offer us as many as possible.

CRK uses S30V and that is what it is available in. One day maybe S35VN. Just use it no matter the steel!
Click to expand...

CTS had not made enough in a quantity for everyone to buy. As far as CPM-M4 is concerned, people were turned off when they realized it was not stainless. I agree, I'd take a D2 Sebenza at 62RC any day. The steel doesn't matter, it's all in the heat treatment.
 
I did not know that about CTS. I guess I am somewhat surprised at how steels can be so hyped up and talked about so much and after it has been available some time it just fades. Remember when Ats 34 came out? People thought it was THE steel! I did too when I found it.
 
Actually, ATS-34 is still pretty darned good steel. It just doesn't get much respect, and neither does its domestic (US) sibling, 154CM. I think S30V has a similar problem. They are the Rodney Dangerfields of the steel world
 
I've been very pleased with the performance of the steel in every CRK folder I've used - be it ATS-34, BG42, or S30V. While it's fun to discuss the merits of the different wonder steels, what it comes down to for me is this: as long as it holds a cutting edge resonably well and I can touch up/re-sharpen it without too much difficulty then I'm happy.
 
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