Bevel issues using a bevel jig!

C

Cody454

Joined
Mar 7, 2023
Messages
17
Question from a newbie maker. So far, I’ve ground bevels on two different knives using my homemade bevel jig and a Nicholson bastard file.

Although the jig is symmetrical on both sides, meaning file stop location, handle alignment bolt etc., I seem to get a nice curved bevel that follows the belly on one side and then more of a “straight bevel line” on the other side.

Note: Both knives are a Sabre grind style. Also, when starting out, both bevels seem to be following the belly equally well but as I continue the process, the one side seems to “straighten out”.

Hope the pictures of my latest knife upload.

https://imgur.com/a/Pp1zQTg

https://imgur.com/a/Pp1zQTg
 
Just guessing here but maybe once you flip the knife with the first beveled side down and start filing, the gap under the blade near the tip (the previous bevel) allows the blade to twist a bit as you apply pressure and file. Maybe adding some support under the blade will help? Hope that makes sense.

Eric
 
Yall are on to something! I will try the support suggestion on the next one. I’ll post my findings if it works/doesn't work.
 
A couple other sources of asymmetry are blade warp and uneven thickness of the steel. To even out the bevel on the one side you might have to torque your file a bit more to remove more material by the plunge line.
 
Your problems are why I do not use or recommend filing jigs.

Clamp the blade to a board and file by hand.
If you have a grinder, learning to free-hand grind is a skill you will need to make knives ... learn from the start. The filing jig will just set you back.

Good advice to new and old knifemakers:
Whatever method you use to shape your knives, using Dykem lay-out fluid or a wide-tip black sharpie to darken the blade and make your progress easy to see is a good method when learning. Actually, it is a good method anytime. I still do that when I am working on an exact bevel or clip. If you plan on making more than a few knives, a brush-on can of Dy-chem will pay for itself many times over in better bevels and profiles. I like the brush on fluid, as the spray can wastes too much on a small object like a knife blade. Dy-chem is also good for marking the blade profile on the steel for shaping and cutting. I use a carbide scriber for marking, but a 1/4" piece of steel, ground to a point and hardened, will work fine.

Another big tip is to use a white paint marker to write on steel bars, and draw profiles. A black sharpie marker will fade and/or rub off quickly. The white shows really well on the blue Dykem. These markers come in a fine tip that is perfect for drawing lines, as well as a regular tip for marking bars.
You can mark the steel type, customer name, HT temp, etc. on the tang, draw the bevel and clip lines, mark holes, etc. If you change your mind about something, just wipe off with a solvent and redraw the line.
One BIG plus of a white paint marker is that the white marks stay on bare steel, and even after HT will still show up as black writing. The white pigment is titanium dioxide, which lasts well beyond our HT temps. After HT, you have to grind it off. After each grinding session, I re-mark the tang so I know which steel and job it is.

Mark your steel stock!!!! I use the white paint marker to mark every bar of steel on both sides of both ends. If I cut a piece off, I mark the cut end immediately. I have quite a few bars of steel from the years before I started doing this that I have no idea exactly what it is. Mark your steel the moment it arrives and every time you cut some off. Mark the blade again as you grind/file it. Don't be like most of us old guys with a box of nice blade blanks that are " some kind of steel". When I laid it down or put it in a project box, I knew what it was. A month (or year) later, Hmmm???
 
Robert Erickson said:
A couple other sources of asymmetry are blade warp and uneven thickness of the steel. To even out the bevel on the one side you might have to torque your file a bit more to remove more material by the plunge line.
Click to expand...
I will check to see if the blade has a slight warp to it .
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Your problems are why I do not use or recommend filing jigs.

Clamp the blade to a board and file by hand.
If you have a grinder, learning to free-hand grind is a skill you will need to make knives ... learn from the start. The filing jig will just set you back.

Good advice to new and old knifemakers:
Whatever method you use to shape your knives, using Dykem lay-out fluid or a wide-tip black sharpie to darken the blade and make your progress easy to see is a good method when learning. Actually, it is a good method anytime. I still do that when I am working on an exact bevel or clip. If you plan on making more than a few knives, a brush-on can of Dy-chem will pay for itself many times over in better bevels and profiles. I like the brush on fluid, as the spray can wastes too much on a small object like a knife blade. Dy-chem is also good for marking the blade profile on the steel for shaping and cutting. I use a carbide scriber for marking, but a 1/4" piece of steel, ground to a point and hardened, will work fine.

Another big tip is to use a white paint marker to write on steel bars, and draw profiles. A black sharpie marker will fade and/or rub off quickly. The white shows really well on the blue Dykem. These markers come in a fine tip that is perfect for drawing lines, as well as a regular tip for marking bars.
You can mark the steel type, customer name, HT temp, etc. on the tang, draw the bevel and clip lines, mark holes, etc. If you change your mind about something, just wipe off with a solvent and redraw the line.
One BIG plus of a white paint marker is that the white marks stay on bare steel, and even after HT will still show up as black writing. The white pigment is titanium dioxide, which lasts well beyond our HT temps. After HT, you have to grind it off. After each grinding session, I re-mark the tang so I know which steel and job it is.

Mark your steel stock!!!! I use the white paint marker to mark every bar of steel on both sides of both ends. If I cut a piece off, I mark the cut end immediately. I have quite a few bars of steel from the years before I started doing this that I have no idea exactly what it is. Mark your steel the moment it arrives and every time you cut some off. Mark the blade again as you grind/file it. Don't be like most of us old guys with a box of nice blade blanks that are " some kind of steel". When I laid it down or put it in a project box, I knew what it was. A month (or year) later, Hmmm???
Click to expand...

My dad has said the same thing. He can’t believe my first knife was all hand filed since it takes so long. He has made several knives out of old mower and wafer blades, all ground on a bench grinder and finished via sandpaper.

I know if I continue this process, especially making larger quantities of knives, I need to learn to grind bevels via my 1” belt sander and eventually move up to a 2”.
 
Suggestions:
Get a 12" Magicut file. It will take off metal quickly.
Learn to Draw-file.
Put a good handle on the tang end of the file, and wrap the non-handle end of the file in duct tape for a better grip. Some folks grind the wide end to make a short tang for a handle on both ends. This works good on a low cost 14" Mill bastard to use for draw filing.
Files are a consumable. Old files don't work well after a while. For bevels, you want a good fresh file.

I have had people say they hate to get rid of a fil or put it in the "worn" box. I point out that a good file is only the cost of three or four grinder belts and we throw those away after a few knives sometimes.
Don't get me wrong, I have a drawerfiull of old files. Sometimes I need one for an odd task that is likely to break it, and I keep old files for making hardened tools or fun forging projects. I forged a large file into a sword at a demo years back.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
Suggestions:
Get a 12" Magicut file. It will take off metal quickly.
Learn to Draw-file.
Put a good handle on the tang end of the file, and wrap the non-handle end of the file in duct tape for a better grip. Some folks grind the wide end to make a short tang for a handle on both ends. This works good on a low cost 14" Mill bastard to use for draw filing.
Files are a consumable. Old files don't work well after a while. For bevels, you want a good fresh file.

I have had people say they hate to get rid of a fil or put it in the "worn" box. I point out that a good file is only the cost of three or four grinder belts and we throw those away after a few knives sometimes.
Don't get me wrong, I have a drawerfiull of old files. Sometimes I need one for an odd task that is likely to break it, and I keep old files for making hardened tools or fun forging projects. I forged a large file into a sword at a demo years back.
Click to expand...

I will look into those. On my first knife, I did draw-file before I started the sanding process. Prolly should have went longer as it may have saved some sanding time.

On average, how many 3” bladed, average width 1084 knives would a 12” Nicholson do before needing to be “retired”?
 
Cody454 said:
I will look into those. On my first knife, I did draw-file before I started the sanding process. Prolly should have went longer as it may have saved some sanding time.

On average, how many 3” bladed, average width 1084 knives would a 12” Nicholson do before needing to be “retired”?
Click to expand...
Part of that is how well you take care of it. Keep it clean and don’t throw it in the drawer with other files because that will chip them. Don’t let them rust either. You should be able to tell when the cutting performance declines enough to be bothersome.

I personally believe old files were/are generally better than modern ones. I look for new old stock files online. Files aren’t used in manufacturing as much as they used to be. I think the art of file making has declined somewhat with the decline in usage but that’s just my opinion. Take that with a grain of salt because, according to my wife, I’m often wrong about things. The Magicut files do work pretty well for hogging material.
 
I agree that the files of old are better than the new files in most all cases. What I was talking about was worn out files.

A good Magnacut file, used properly, will do 100's of 3" blades. It is the lowest cost abrasive method. If you file, get a file card and use it often. (file cleaning metal brush).

Old rusty and worn files can be cleaned by 12VDC electrolysis in a sodium carbonate bath (+ to the file, - to a piece of iron as the cathode.), and then etched in industrial vinegar (30% to50%). The vinegar can be used many tines. Use the soda from the electrolysis bath to neutralize the files after etching. They won't be "Brand New", but will get a second useful life.
 
I knew what you meant Stacy. I didn’t explain my thought very well. I wasn’t saying old worn files were better. I meant, if you’re going to buy a new file, see if you can find new(unused) old stock files. They aren’t terribly hard to find and often can be had for slightly more than modern stock. You can also find patterns and sizes that aren’t nearly as common today if you’re patient.

I do agree that the newer Magicut files work pretty well for heavy material removal.
 
I will definitely look for at least Magicut file and see if I can find some older Nicholson files.

On the smaller blades I’ve been working on, I try to do 30 passes then stop, use the file card, clean off the blade of metal shavings then start the process again.

Thanks all for the input!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top