Photos Bevel Size Manufactured vs Hand Sharpened

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Feb 7, 2019
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Hello everybody.


I'm a professional chef and I'm starting learning hand sharpening on a whetstone.

So far, I'm having good results using a whetstone. But I noticed that all my knives have a bigger bevel size when compared with one sharpened by its manufactory, even when I follow the original angle.

Does someone know why it happens?
o8t16p.jpg

Factory bevel edge 15 degrees

261j441.jpg

Whetstone 15 degree.
 
How did you determine the factory angle and your sharpening angle?
 
I sharpen at 10 degrees then I create a microbevel at about 12 or 13. I have never seen a factory edge this low. 22.5 is supposed to be what a western knife is anyway. But I like the better slicing from the lower angle. I sharpen my own so edge longevity isn't a major consideration.
 
The factory angle is around 15 degrees and I know that 15 degrees is a little bit higher than my thumb. I checked it with an app.
 
15 degree per side is 30 inclusive. I sharpen primary at 10 (20 inclusive) and end up with the 24 or so inclusive for the micro bevel.
 
I sharpen at 10 degrees then I create a microbevel at about 12 or 13. I have never seen a factory edge this low. 22.5 is supposed to be what a western knife is anyway. But I like the better slicing from the lower angle. I sharpen my own so edge longevity isn't a major consideration.
I have two chef knives. One is Henckels(Western style, 56 RC) and another one is a Shun Classic(Asian, 61RC).

Nowadays almost all German knives are coming with 14 to 16 degrees angle. What I don't like so much, as soon 56RC can't keep a sharp edge so long.
 
That's always a personal choice. I do what I do for my own uses. As I said I sharpen on my own so touching an edge up isn't an issue for me.
 
The factory angle is around 15 degrees and I know that 15 degrees is a little bit higher than my thumb. I checked it with an app.

If the edge bevel was flat, and if you sharpened at the factory angle, the bevel width should stay the same.

So, it has to be either,
(1) The factory angle was larger than 15 degree, or
(2) The factory edge was actually convex.

My 2 cents.


Edit: The bevel width should stay the same at the same angle, if you just maintain the edge. If you remove a lot of metal, it would get widen.
 
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Hello everybody.
I'm a professional chef and I'm starting learning hand sharpening on a whetstone.
So far, I'm having good results using a whetstone. But I noticed that all my knives have a bigger bevel size when compared with one sharpened by its manufactory, even when I follow the original angle.
Does someone know why it happens?
Hi,
Its because that is where you removed metal ;)
its is what is supposed to happen,
esp since you're sharpening freehand (angle wobble).

If you're trying to compare before/after pictures
you need to put a ruler on the thing you're measuring
cause the 2nd picture is zoomed compared to 1st,
exaggerating any differences


Which knife exactly? Got calipers?
 
If the bevel is actually wider after resharpening, it means that during some part of the sharpening passes, the angle was actually lower than original factory angle. Especially as done freehand, it'll happen because there's a natural tendency for the hands to rock forward/back a bit in the stroke on the stone, resulting in some convexing of the 'bevel' as the spine's elevation above the stone varies up & down. It may be that the edge angle at the apex has remained relatively the same, but the held angle pivoted to something lower during some part of the sharpening pass on the stone, therefore removing more metal at or above the original bevels' shoulders.

In freehand sharpening, there's essentially no chance the held angle will remain perfectly set at a specific degree value during the entirety of each & every sharpening pass on the stone. So there'll always be some of that convexing going on, even if most of the variation in angle is occurring behind the original edge, affecting the bevels' width closer to the shoulders, but not necessarily the apex angle too much. In fact, one can 'bias' their hold on the blade and their motion on the stone, to keep most of the variation in angle behind the apex, so the apex angle won't necessarily vary too much, but the shoulders will become more convexed and/or blended into the primary grind of the blade. This contrasts with many factory edges applied with powered grinders, as they'll usually remain much tighter or even fixed in angle, relative to the machine doing the grinding, as most of the sharpening 'motion' will be along the length of the edge (moving heel to tip), rather than a back/forth edge-leading/trailing direction, as we normally do on stones by hand, and introducing that angle-pivoting/convexing aspect in the process.

Bevels will also get wider if sharpening is done on softer stones (some waterstones, for example) or any other media with a soft/compressible substrate (like sandpaper over leather, mousepad, etc). This is because they'll also introduce some convexing into the sharpening process as the abrasive's substrate tends to wrap or form itself around the bevels' shoulders and makes contact higher above the original shoulders of the edge grind.

BTW, the 1st photo in the OP shows vertical/diagonal scratches above the new bevel shoulder, which is more indication the blade angle dipped a little bit at some point. It's extremely common, and virtually everyone has done it (and most of us likely still do ;) ).
 
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Because with sharpening you work back into the wedge shape of the full flat grind, even if you were able to magically keep exactly the same angle (even jigs typically aren't perfect) your bevel will widen as you work your way back into thicker steel. The only way to keep the both the edge angle and cosmetic bevel width the same would be to thin the primary grind, as well. But there's also all sorts of other reasons why the bevel could be widening in appearance, many of which were already mentioned above.
 
Something that I've seen that causes this malady you describe is: sharpening and using the same hand only. Let's say your right handed and sharpen on a stone. When the spine of the blade is facing you, one often sets the edge by the lift of the spine off the stone. Then when you switch sides of the knife (and are still holding it right handed) now you cannot see the
amount of lift of spine off the stone. So, you're sharpening blind. Thus, with the knife pointed away from you and cutting edge downward, the right-hand bevel is usually not as consistent as the left bevel. DM
 
Something that I've seen that causes this malady you describe is: sharpening and using the same hand only. Let's say your right handed and sharpen on a stone. When the spine of the blade is facing you, one often sets the edge by the lift of the spine off the stone. Then when you switch sides of the knife (and are still holding it right handed) now you cannot see the
amount of lift of spine off the stone. So, you're sharpening blind. Thus, with the knife pointed away from you and cutting edge downward, the right-hand bevel is usually not as consistent as the left bevel. DM

Could be David. I have a related but sort of opposite "problem". I sharpen with the stone perpendicular to me and use a right hand pull and push style.

I always, always, always start my sharpening on the right side of the knife. That is to say if I was holding the handle with the tip pointed away from me. For whatever reason, I am far more comfortable on this pull stroke, coming toward me, than I am on the push stroke, going away from me. So if I'm not conscious of it, I can find myself spending more time on that side and sort of rushing the left side and that can lead to uneven bevels and angles and less robust edges all around.

I'm not really one for counting strokes per side but I do sometimes need to remind myself not to fall into that trap.

This is especially true on a new knife that I haven't gotten my personal bevel on, don't really know the existing bevel, and may not know the steel too well yet. I can catch myself working that right side meticulously and then not spending as much time on the other side. I don't do it much any more but it can still sometimes creep in.
 
Yes, don't count the strokes. Don't fall into that.
I'm mostly ambidextrous, so, I change the knife to left and right hands, always keeping the spine facing me. Thus, I look and gauge this with my thumb and my bevels come out even. I use the push, pull stroke as well. Only when I'm removing the burr do I use a edge leading stoke. DM
 
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