BEWARE the pizza delivery boy!

ARtsig1

ARtsig1

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Went to visit my local, and favorite, B&M gun/knife shop today. Happy to report that I picked up a BM 942 with black blade. Promises to be a good addition to my regular carry large Sebenza. But this is not the purpose of the post. While there talking to the owner a young fellow, guessed him to be 16 or 17, shows up and says he is interested in buying a knife. The knife he purchased was a cheap, Chinese copy of a Spyderco model. This "knife" had a liner lock with blue plastic like handles. Blade length was around 3" to 3.25". In the conversation that followed I picked up that he was a pizza delivery guy who wanted the knife as a defensive weapon in case " anybody messes with me, and I have to pull out a knife on them". He made the comment that a buddy of his in the same line of work also carried a knife for the very same purpose. To say the least I was shocked! Even more shocking, this boy's mother walked up and asked the shop owner if he could give her son any tips on using the knife! I'm afraid I did a great disservice by keeping my mouth shut. This poor boy and his mother left thinking that he was properly armed in case " anyone tried to mess with me." There were so many other options available, number one being; RUN! This shop also sold pepper spray which would probably better suit the need. I am afraid if this young boy pulls a knife on someone he may very well piss them off and end up seriously hurt. Even if he were able to somehow defend himself, this $4.98 special may just be as hazardous to him as an assailant!

Not sure why I am even posting this, but just had to get it off my chest as I have thought about this all day. I just wonder how many others are out there armed in the same fashion just waiting to get seriously hurt.

BTW, I am not saying that a $4.98 knife won't defend you as in the right hands I am sure it would. This poor fellow just looked lost and wanted a knife for his pocket so he could defend himself if need be. Anyone else run across a similar situation? More importantly should I or any of you knife knuts have intervened in such a situation?

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Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Php. 4:13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"
Heb. 4:12
 
I agree. I highly doubt this kid could properly defend himself with any knife.

especially the one purchased.

If he is so worried about getting hurt or killed on the job why doesn't he get another job?

Did the shop owner give the kid any "Tips" on how to use the knife on someone?
I surely hope not.

-Jeff

 
I have a story of an incedent that happened here in my town. It happened to two delivery boys, one I know. The first delivery boy walked up to this man's door to deliver the pizza. The guy opens the door and grabs him, pulling him into the house. He turned him around and held a large butcher knife to his throat demanding money. When the pizza boy gave it to him the man stabed and sliced his stomach open and ran out the door. The pizza boy was able to call 911 and got help. The second time this happened was to my friend. Same thing, same person, different house. However my friend has some martial arts background and the scumbag managed to only cut his arm. With the description of both pizza boys this man was apprehended. Seems he would break into houses where people were not home and call for a pizza when the delivery boy arrived he would rob them. This happened several times in Wichita and I guess he just decided to expand into differnt towns. These last two times however were the only times this man used the knife. He is now in jail for assault and attempted murder. Where am I going with this? Sometimes you can't run.
 
Looks like this guy is going for the intimidation factor a knife brings in a potentially dangerous situation. I hope he never needs to use it to actually defend himself.

Would I have intervened and said anything? Sadly, I have to admit that I would probably not have.
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Aloha

[This message has been edited by BigHonu (edited 06-27-2001).]
 
I always find it odd that people will buy a self-defense device, and somehow believe that the mere possession of the weapon is all that is required for protection.

Once fired handguns in night-stands, pepper spray in the bottom of the purse, pocket knives that look mean yet are poorly constucted, these items are the panacea of the lazy minded.

Does it take much common sense to grasp the concept that self-defense requires learning and investment of time?

The Pizza Boy's mother values her son's life to the extent of the cheapest knife in the case, and five minutes on inquiry of it's use. Sadly, She's more than convinced that he's ready for the evil world.

I doubt coming from that type of parenting, the lad could develope street awareness skills; skills far more critical to personal safety than mean looking cheap junk.

If it wasn't for Sheeple, criminals would have to summon real courage to prey upon those that can and will fight back.

-Seth

 
..and sometimes you can't just get another job. What this kid needed was proper SD education and training.

I would say a bit on it and tried to put him into the right direction, but would not go beyond that .. hmmm, thinking.
 
Don't feel to bad Artsig. Hindsight is always 20/20, and I doubt if any of us would have jumped in either. I probably wouldn't have. Anything you said would probably have been taken in the wrong context.

I quite often see people giving gun/knife advice that is just plain wrong, and I've learned from experience to just keep my mouth shut. Unless it's someone close to me.

It'll probably pacify the kid for a few weeks and hopefully he won't cut himself to bad.
If anything, the boss will probably catch the kid carrying the knife and fire him.
I betcha'
 
My latest story on college students and weapons:

Recently I met a woman whose father sent her to the university with a LOADED GLOCK pistol! She told me she had fired it "some" one day in a field (at a can) with her father. He loaded it for her to take back to school. Seems he was in police work or something at one time and the family is well-to-do.

Well-to-do with money, maybe, but not brains!

Now if she had been raised on IPSC and sent to Gunsite and LFI and had training like THAT, then okay. But this was pretty shocking. I offered to make it safe for her but she was taking it home soon. She said she would never shoot anyone with it and never considered using it (she had more brains than her dad). Apparently she just kept it in it's case and didn't mess with it.

She offered all this after I had shown her my latest purchase: a Buck Nighthawk. Before this I had known of another woman whose dad wanted to send a .22 rifle with her back to her apartment, but she refused. Then there were the two self-defense students (both older women) who had guns for protection. I did my best to steer them in the right (training, reading, etc.) direction. Also offered to take them shooting their guns (both given to them by a relative). I also managed to clear up many misconceptions that they both had as well.

That's why I try to educate folks, I guess.

What would I have done in the knife shop with that pizza guy? Don't know. Woulda had to have been there. Sometimes I'm good at opening my mouth and sometimes not.

So don't feel bad about it. Educate the ones you can.

Karl

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"Celebrate the diversity of inclusive, self-esteem nurturing, multicultural weapons arts." Karl Spaulding, The Safety Guy
 
I would not have said anything. There is a lot to be said for intent. If the boy actually pulls the knife out in a crisis situation, then he has made a decision to use the knife, no looking back. If he makes that decision, he obviously is not scared to use the thing. And at that point, there is a great chance the assailant is not expecting a young pizza delivery boy to be armed, and seeing an armed pizza delivery boy, could be more scared than his intended victim. On the other hand, if the boy realizes at the moment of crisis he is too scared to pull that thang out, than no harm done.
The price of the weapon makes no difference, either. He may have bought it just to use in case of that one God-forbidden situation, in which a POS could slash and stab as good as any $100 blade. The greatest instances of successful self-defense, overthrows, and escapes with a bladed weapon I'm sure were not usually accomplished with customs or expensive factory models.
 
I may have said something about getting some training. Maybe suggested some local MA schools. Maybe not. Hard to say........

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Always remember - you are unique, just like everyone else.
 
Too many local MA schools are worthless to a fault. A few wierd manuvers and a false sense of confidence are poor tools to take into a fight. Either way your mindset is 99% of the battle. He who decides to do harm first wins. It doesn't matter how you hit them, or with what, as long as you hit them first.

Likewise, if you loose the initiative, or have made a conscious decision that it is not worth attacking first, you should yield.
Self defense has nothing in common with sparing duels.

I only carried a gun for self defense for a short period of time. This was back when I owned a small business and was required to open or close the shop on a regular basis.

I knew I was a classic target during this activity so I made it a practice to exit my car with my hand on my gun (gun in full condition one). For a minute or two each day, while my employees opened or closed the doors to the business I was prepared to fire immediately at any unidentified stranger that approached within 10 feet of where I was standing. For the balance of the day the gun was safely put away and I way ready to yield if confronted.

I had no intention of making it a fair fight, and I knew I couldn't focus on the business and self defense at the same time. I know many local businessmen who make it a practice to carry a holstered gun. They are ready to pull their mega-magnum just as soon as someone pulls a weapon on them. I like to suggest that if this happens they will not be in any position to pull anything out of anywhere to do anything, whithout putting themselves and their customers at serious risk.

It doesn't matter whether its a three dollar pocket knife or a $1000 custom. Our pizza delivery boy would be better served by keeping alert, than by his knife or MA training.

N2S

BTW, I don't think I would have said anything either.
 
I am afraid if the guy needs to use a knife to collect his $10 from a defective client, he needs another job......but thanks for the heads up... I will be keeping my 1911 under the newspaper on my coffee table when the Pizza Hut guy shows up from now on!!
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To Artsig, in that situation, the only advice you should give is to tell someone that if they are worried about self-defense, they should recieve professional instruction. If you give amateur instruction, and the boy cuts someone, it's possible you could be sued by the person who is cut.

To everyone who posted to this thread, Massad Ayoob is the expert on these questions. His books such as "In The Gravest Extreme", should be read by all. His theories of "threat management" and self defense are very common sense.
 
A friend of mine once said, "If someone pulled a knife on me, I'd take it away from them and stab them." I tried to explain how hard it is to take a knife away from anyone, even a total idiot with no training. But of coarse, he wouldn't listen. People seem way to overconfident in such matters, much like the pizza boy. Oh well...

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Johnathan Mitchell
 
LOL
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They have an award for the pizza boy just waiting

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Big boys need pointy toys
ICQ# 117419996
RKBA!
 
Great responses everybody. A lot of good points have been brought out, just hope the pizza boy's point hasn't! LOL. The knife he purchased was a liner lock style from China. It seems like it had a 3.5" blade and employed a thumb opener.

Several have said that it doesn't matter if it is a $4.95 China special or a $150.00 well made blade, if it cuts it will work. I tend to agree but only to a certain point. In the hands of someone who has some training AND who knows knives, then that person SHOULD be able to make the $4.95 special do the job. In the hand of someone who doesn't know beans about knives, and it was my impression that "pizza boy" knew little, I think that a cheap knife, especially a liner lock, could prove very dangerous to him.

I also agree that if you pull a knife on someone you had better be ready to use the knife and use it to end the conflict as quick as possible. In fact I think if you pull put a knife and wave it around to try and intimidate someone you have lost all advantage it may have given you. I may be wrong but I think you bring out a knife in self defense, employ it before your assailant knows you have one. In other words your assailant finds out about your knife when he is bleeding profusely!

The only advice given by the shop owner was to practice drawing and opening the knife and to do this over and over until it became second nature.

I still think the best thing to do IF POSSIBLE is to RUN. Get out of there as fast as your little feets will carry you! If not then draw and employ the knife as quickly and as often as you can. This should be done ONLY as a last resort.

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Art Sigmon
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me"
Php. 4:13

"For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword"
Heb. 4:12
 
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