Beyond the BC: Bigger knives. Part 2

[M4Super90]

OK, so when I said 5” knives in the previous post I wasn’t telling the whole truth. Here’s why. We all know that since each knife is handmade, there are going to be subtle differences from knife to knife even between the same model (teaser alert for Part 3!). Handles will be thicker or thinner, grinds are different, and of course blade thickness all make each one unique.

Two weeks ago I received a shipment of models for comparison from Phil which included a Hunter, a Leuku, and a Runt. I was able to purchase a Woodsman from a forum member some time ago, and recently a new Camp Nessie and Duke. Of course, I take every opportunity to add a BC Senior when I can.

If you look on the Fiddleback webpage, you’ll notice the Bushcrafter, Nessmuck, Terrasaur, Kephart and Bushfinger are all in the 4” section. So are the Camp Nessie and Hunter. The Duke and the Woodsman are in the 5” Section. The Leuku and the BC Senior are in not currently listed. However, the Leuku was released on 03/28/14 and described as “This knife is a larger version of the Recluse. I’m calling it the Fiddleback Leukko. The blade on this knife is 5” long and the handle is 4.5” long” in the original listing (Not sure when it changed to Leuku). The BC Senior has been described on 07/12/13 as “BACK FROM THE DEAD!!! The Bushcrafter Sr – this is a Bushcrafter with a 5” blade”.

“Feel” is a very subjective way to evaluate. I mention this because many times I have read the specs, I know the exact dimensions, but it doesn’t “feel” like I expected (for example, my first Recluse). What I noticed is that if you sort these knives by the way they feel in the hand relative to other 4” knives, you can make two piles easily. What is interesting is that they do not sort the same way as they are grouped on the FF website (blade size). To test this I performed a blinded test on my wife and on a friend with 10 Fiddleback knives (See below: six 4” knives and four 5” knives).

The result was the same both times. It was also the same as the way I was sorting them. The Hunter and the Camp Nessie end up with the 5” knives. The Leuku ends up with the 4 inch knives. That might be a consequence of this Leuku being so light. However, dimension-wise that handle seems more like a 4” (compare to the Kephart in the photo above). So that grouping is the way I am going to compare them for the large knife review. Here's the way they sort:

I am throwing the Leuku in for the sake of the review, as it really is a 5” blade. That group consists of:

Duke
Woodsman
Leuku
Bushcrafter Senior
Hunter
Camp Nessie

The specs on each knife are:

Duke (purchased from a forum member) Ironwood burl over lime and black, Predator pinout. Convex on 3/16", SFT Tang, heavily spalted 01.

Woodsman (purchased from a forum member) Sapphire burlap from Shadetree over black g10 with a white g10 pinstripe, SFT Tang, Convex on 5/32”, heavily spalted 01 steel.

Leuku (on loan from Phil) Emerald burlap over black liners with a white pinstripe, Tapered Tang, Convex on 5/32”, Fiddletextured 01.

Hunter (on loan from Phil) 2014 0808 23 – Hunter with black canvas micarta bolsters over Emerald burlap with Trinity pinout, SFT Tang, convex on 5/32”, spalted 01 steel.

Camp Nessie (purchased from BladeCo. around 09/03/14) - Black burlap over black with yellow liners 3/16", spalted 01 steel.

Bushcrafter Senior (received in trade from a forum member, 2014 0718 18) – Ironwood burl over black g10 with white pinstripes, SFT Tang, convex on 5/32”, spalted 01 steel.

Obligatory photos:

Duke

Woodsman

Leuku

Bushcrafter Senior

Hunter

Camp Nessie

Size comparison. You'll notice that all 4" knives are not 4" and the same is true of the 5" group. As an example, there's not even 1/2" blade length difference between the 4" Hunter and 5" BC Sr., but there is over 3/4" difference between the BC Sr. and the Duke, which are both in the 5" category. Each knife has been lined up at the start of the cutting edge of the blade, using the Thurin method:

Some Mistwalker in-the-hand shots. My palm is right at 4" wide:

The weights are significantly different based on the handle material, the tang and grind height:

Duke 10.4 oz / 294 g
Camp Nessie 9.9 oz / 282 g
Woodsman 9.1 oz / 258 g
Hunter 8.0 0z / 227 g
Bushcrafter Senior 7.8 oz / 221 g
Leuku 5.7 oz / 162 g

I would not have expected a 4” to be near the top of the list, nor a 5” to be at the bottom. Obviously this has an effect on the balance point. The Comprehensivist method for determining balance point (this is more difficult to do than it looks, if you have not attempted it. I'm amazed Phil could get 4 BC all balanced at the same time. I tried to get all 6 together for a comparison shot and finally gave up):

General Impressions

It doesn’t take any stretch of the imagination to see why some of the 4” blades end up in the “larger” knife group. As you can see, the Duke and Woodsman handles are more similar in shape, length and circumference to the Hunter and Camp Nessie than the Bushcrafter Senior and Leuku. The longer grips that go through my hand are comfortable to me. I have always gravitated toward the Hiking Buddy/KE Bushie/Arete/BC handle as it feels great in my hand. The knives that do not have a rounded butt and a shorter grip seem to dig in with extended use, but this is not the case with the knives here. And that’s a good thing. The longer blade creates more leverage and applies more pressure during use. It makes sense that the heftier blade for heavier tasks is paired with a handle that extends past the palm and it works well. The BC Sr. solves this issue with the rounded butt.

The Hunter is a beefed up Bushfinger. If you like the ergonomics of the Bushfinger and want a larger knife, the Hunter is the one you want to try. I was keenly interested in the Hunter/Duke/Woodsman comparison. To be honest, it took me a while before I could pick them out by sight in the Fotoki pics if they were not all in the same photo. I’ve had the Woodsman in the field many times and while it does handy work around the camp, I couldn’t see myself skinning game easily with it, nor do I think that is the role it was intended to fill. But hey – I always imagine the “one knife” scenario and I think a 5/32 or 3/16 Hunter comes close. The additional belly on the blade speaks for itself. I am more impressed with the Hunter than I thought I would be.

That brings us to the Duke. The Duke would fill some heavier rolls than the Hunter. It is the heaviest knife of the bunch and really fills the hand. The mass detracts a little from lighter tasks I might want to perform. The Woodsman is a better slicer and the Camp Nessie a better prep knife for breaking down root vegetables. I like the Duke, but it is a bit of an in-between knife for me. The Duke just makes me want a Camp Knife or a Bishop. A 3/16” SFT bruiser. Go large or go home.

On the other side of the coin, the tapered Leuku is freakishly light. This is the feel that I was expecting with the first Recluse I bought. I REALLY like this knife. Actually, this is one instance where a larger knife feels smaller instead of the other way around. With the BC Sr., you still put it in the larger category even with the shorter grip. Not so with the Leuku. The BC Sr. and Leuku are the most agile due to weight and balance point. But agile is not always the best trait if you were to desire some heft when batoning thicker logs for the fire. Although, the Leuku did admirably well in the batoning test……

…. just a joke Phil.

My Camp Nessie is hefty. I love the blade profile and it is great prep knife. I would like to try a Camp Nessie in 5/32 with a tapered tang. I think that would quickly become a favorite. I don’t have anything bad to say about it. It is a chunk of a knife for a 4” blade. A bit of a bulldog in stature and can easily handle tasks much larger than you would think based on a spec sheet.

I really enjoyed handling and comparing each of these knives and I think each have their place. If you had to pick one it would be very tough choice. I don’t know if I could get this group down to one. The Hunter is a great all-round profile and would be an excellent general tasker. I could see myself skinning an elk with it. The BC Sr. feels much like all the other BCs I have and I love that handle. I can think of a lot of things to do with that extra inch of blade. The Leuku impressed me the most. I need one. Actually, Phil may need one. Possession is 9/10ths of the law, isn’t it? But since he is one of the most generous individuals I’ve met and made these reviews possible, I’ll probably send it back. Probably.

On the other hand, why narrow it down to only one? It’s not in our nature as knife lovers. I will freely admit, I continually think of unique use scenarios so I might learn and enjoy in the quest for the perfect knife for that role. After this comparison, I have a few more options to consider.

 

[trestle]

Excellent review and photos. I like your well-supported conclusions on handle length and agree on the overall versatility of the Hunter. Yes it's a beefed-up Bushfinger but it's also a scaled down hybrid of a Duke and a Woodsman.

There seems to be a correlation between rounded butts and rounded blades v. squared butts and pointer blades. Hmmm, leaves the KE Bushie in an interesting place. Hmmmm.

Only one? A horrible punishment. Thanks for posting. :thumbup:

 

[Comprehensivist]

Phillip,

This is another Epic addition to the knowledge base on the forum. I like the blind feel test. The photos with the knives lined up at the front are great for understanding the relative size. Your comments and observations are very well reasoned.

I will have much more to say tomorrow when I get back to a real computer.

Awesome write-up my friend.

Phil

 

[SA Condor]

Thanks for this! I've never handled any of the larger Fiddlebacks yet, so this is helpful. Actually, the biggest I've handled has been my Bushraptor! Crazy, I know. I supposedly have a Bushfinger somewhere if my brother can ever find it and send it to me. I like your comments about the Duke, although I still think a 5/32" TT Shadetree Camp Nessie is the 'big' knife for me.

 

[thurin]

Excellent followup Phillip! Great comparisons and insights into these bigger models. I'm very envious of some of these examples.

 

[xxwjtxx]

Philip, phenomenal post and great closure to this two part series; there are a few (3) knives in this post that have passed through my hands, and your observations could not be more spot on with my own sentiments. Job well done with an extremely well written, insightful , and informative series of posts; thank you and great work my friend :thumbup: !

 

[Kirkwood]

Great write up Phillip! Some interesting thoughts on a few patterns I've never tried, Duke, Camp Ness and Leuku. Most intrigued by your thoughts in the Leuku as that is not a pattern I've ever had much interest in. Might have to reconsider that.

 

[hasco]

This is such an awesome post! This has been a great week for informative knife posts. When I started looking for a fiddleback I wanted a hiking buddy. I was set on a 3" fiddle. Then I got a four incher and was like wow. This feels great! I love all the four inch models I have tried. Then I started to look big. I got a woodsman because it was too beautiful to pass up. I loved it but couldn't imagine using it much. Then I thought if your going to go big, then go big so I got a camp knife. It felt like too much knife for me. At that point I would rather use a small axe. I still would like to find a bigger fiddleback. I really like the camp nessie. A tapered duke in 5/32" is probably what I will try next. I will say though that looking at your in hand pics makes me think I would really like the bushcraft senior.

The in hand pics are very helpful. I would be interested to hear if anyone has a 3/16 sft duke and a 5/32 tapered duke and how similar or different they are.

Anyways, fabulous post Phillip. The content and the pictures are superb! Beautiful bunch of knives too!!

 

[prom52]

This is such an awesome post! This has been a great week for informative knife posts. When I started looking for a fiddleback I wanted a hiking buddy. I was set on a 3" fiddle. Then I got a four incher and was like wow. This feels great! I love all the four inch models I have tried. Then I started to look big. I got a woodsman because it was too beautiful to pass up. I loved it but couldn't imagine using it much. Then I thought if your going to go big, then go big so I got a camp knife. It felt like too much knife for me. At that point I would rather use a small axe. I still would like to find a bigger fiddleback. I really like the camp nessie. A tapered duke in 5/32" is probably what I will try next. I will say though that looking at your in hand pics makes me think I would really like the bushcraft senior.

The in hand pics are very helpful. I would be interested to hear if anyone has a 3/16 sft duke and a 5/32 tapered duke and how similar or different they are.

Anyways, fabulous post Phillip. The content and the pictures are superb! Beautiful bunch of knives too!!

Tod:

I've got both. The 3/16" SFT is a beast of a knife. Feels very substantial in hand and makes for an excellent camp style knife. Weighs in at 10 oz. It is also seriously sharp, one of the sharpest big knives I currently have. Nicely balanced with a bit of forward weight. Feels like it wants to go chop something.

The 5/32" TT Duke feels more neutral in hand. The taper takes away that sense of forward weight. Perhaps a bit more versatile in that it is more nimble in hand. Weighs in at 8 oz. Nice for food prep as well as lighter bushcraft tasks. although I wouldn't hesitate to baton with it either.

Based on your comments about your preference for the use of a small axe, I would suggest that you may find the 5/32" w/ TT Duke much to your liking.

 

[willic]

Great thread!!! I could read this over and over! and..... great pics as well! THANK YOU!

 

[hasco]

Tod:

I've got both. The 3/16" SFT is a beast of a knife. Feels very substantial in hand and makes for an excellent camp style knife. Weighs in at 10 oz. It is also seriously sharp, one of the sharpest big knives I currently have. Nicely balanced with a bit of forward weight. Feels like it wants to go chop something.

The 5/32" TT Duke feels more neutral in hand. The taper takes away that sense of forward weight. Perhaps a bit more versatile in that it is more nimble in hand. Weighs in at 8 oz. Nice for food prep as well as lighter bushcraft tasks. although I wouldn't hesitate to baton with it either.

Based on your comments about your preference for the use of a small axe, I would suggest that you may find the 5/32" w/ TT Duke much to your liking.

Thanks Peter!!!
It sounds like the tapered 5/32 is more what I am looking for but your description of your 3/16 makes it sound very appealing too! Big, very sharp and forward balanced - sounds fun.

 

[M4Super90]

Excellent review and photos. I like your well-supported conclusions on handle length and agree on the overall versatility of the Hunter.

Thanks. I really like the Hunter. As a matter of fact, I like it so much that one will be staying with me.

Phillip,

This is another Epic addition to the knowledge base on the forum. I like the blind feel test. The photos with the knives lined up at the front are great for understanding the relative size. Your comments and observations are very well reasoned.

I will have much more to say tomorrow when I get back to a real computer.

Awesome write-up my friend.

Phil

Thanks for making it possible Phil. It speaks to the quality of folks that hang out here. Not many would send $1000 dollars in the mail to someone they’ve never met in person just for fun.

Thanks for this! I've never handled any of the larger Fiddlebacks yet, so this is helpful.

Good to know. That was my intent.

Excellent followup Phillip!

Great to hear. You’ve got a few nice examples as well.

Philip, phenomenal post and great closure to this two part series; there are a few (3) knives in this post that have passed through my hands, and your observations could not be more spot on with my own sentiments.

Actually only the Camp Nessie came to me in the original FF wrap. Funny, most of the people that have responded have owned these knives at one point (or still do). I know 2 you had, which is the 3d? The Woodsman was Phil’s at one point and came my way through esdunbar. The Bushfinger used in the comparison photo was willic’s at one point. By the way Will, I have located the matching BC. :thumbup:

This is such an awesome post! ……. I will say though that looking at your in hand pics makes me think I would really like the bushcraft senior.

I’ve got one I’d trade. Looking for something glow-in-the dark…

Great write up Phillip! Some interesting thoughts on a few patterns I've never tried, Duke, Camp Ness and Leuku. Most intrigued by your thoughts in the Leuku as that is not a pattern I've ever had much interest in. Might have to reconsider that.

Great! One more person I’m going to have to try to shark for a slate TT Leuku. Although we’ve got some competition - a2vg1095 and NUTRAMAC have been fast on the trigger lately for anything blue and Bonafide has the inside track with his weekly visits. I noticed the cornflower blue Runt I was watching mysteriously appeared in his phenomenal Runt collection.

The 5/32" TT Duke feels more neutral in hand. The taper takes away that sense of forward weight. Perhaps a bit more versatile in that it is more nimble in hand. Weighs in at 8 oz. Nice for food prep as well as lighter bushcraft tasks. although I wouldn't hesitate to baton with it either.

Based on your comments about your preference for the use of a small axe, I would suggest that you may find the 5/32" w/ TT Duke much to your liking.

Thanks for that insight. If my Duke weighed as much as my Hunter that would be a totally different knife. I prefer a small axe also. However, I think I will pick up a Camp Knife at some point.

Great thread!!! I could read this over and over! and..... great pics as well! THANK YOU!

You’re welcome!

 

[Fiddleback]

What a thread! Really cool!

 

[bonafide]

Great! One more person I’m going to have to try to shark for a slate TT Leuku. Although we’ve got some competition - a2vg1095 and NUTRAMAC have been fast on the trigger lately for anything blue and Bonafide has the inside track with his weekly visits. I noticed the cornflower blue Runt I was watching mysteriously appeared in his phenomenal Runt collection.

lol .. dont go all Cassander on me.

 

[xxwjtxx]

...Actually only the Camp Nessie came to me in the original FF wrap. Funny, most of the people that have responded have owned these knives at one point (or still do). I know 2 you had, which is the 3d? The Woodsman was Phil’s at one point and came my way through esdunbar. The Bushfinger used in the comparison photo was willic’s at one point. By the way Will, I have located the matching BC. :thumbup:

Awesome news on the BC; can't wait to see pics !!! The third knife was the woodsman; it made a stop in VA en route to its final destination . Either way, its a heck of a knife, I just really wanted a TT one!

Again, thanks for the great set of posts!! :thumbup:

 

[M4Super90]

lol .. dont go all Cassander on me.

Just know the two in blue you posted are my favorites. :thumbup:

Awesome news on the BC; can't wait to see pics !!! The third knife was the woodsman; it made a stop in VA en route to its final destination . Either way, its a heck of a knife, I just really wanted a TT one!

Again, thanks for the great set of posts!! :thumbup:

Yes, the SFT are some seriously heavy duty knives. I will be keeping my eye out for the right TT versions. I actually think a TT Toothpick in 5/32 would be quite the knife.

 

[Kirkwood]

lol .. dont go all Cassander on me.

Just know the two in blue you posted are my favorites. :thumbup:

I'm still trying to conjure up some trade bait so irresistible that Slate Runt will be mine. Maybe a BEB Camp Knife.

 

[bonafide]

I'm still trying to conjure up some trade bait so irresistible that Slate Runt will be mine. Maybe a BEB Camp Knife.

You got a BEB Camp Knife? !!?

 

[Kirkwood]

You got a BEB Camp Knife? !!?

Still conjuring.

 

[Comprehensivist]

Phillip,

Now that I am back at a real computer, I want to expand on my prior brief comments:

1) I like the way that you demonstrate that some 4" knives feel bigger and some 5" knives feel smaller. That is so true. I think that the combination of weight, handle size, and balance, all contribute to that perception. As I stated before, I like how you had your wife and friend blind test the knives for validation of your observations.

2) I like the photos of the six knives lined up on the forward edge of the handles to show the handle and blade length variations between these models (very "Thurin-esque." of you ) Those photos provide relative size perspective and they are a valuable resource to anyone trying to decide which one is right for his or her next purchase.

3) I appreciate the photos of the knives on the balance beam. That is an important part of the equation to me when comparing models and features. (P.S. Did you steal my stick when I wasn't looking? )

4) I am looking forward to adding a Bushcrafter Sr. to my collection someday. Your comparison photos and comments are making me want to do that sooner than later.

5) I am glad that the Hunter exceeds your expectations. I thought that it might based on our various PM discussions. It is a versatile option for those people looking for the "One." I hope that you enjoy it for a long time now that it is staying in Arizona.

6) You have confirmed my thoughts that the Leuku occupies a unique niche in the Fiddleback line-up. It doesn't get the same level of attention that the Woodsman or Duke get in the 5" range, but it should because it is handy and versatile.

7) Reading between the lines a little, I think that you have come to the same opinion that I have that a tapered tang 5/32" O1 in any of these models would be a nice default option.

You did a great job here my friend with the photos and a well thought out write-up. Very very impressive. I am looking forward to more installments of "Beyond the BC."

Thanks,

Phil