BG-42 Native with CF/FRN handle - summary

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Franco G

Joined
Dec 29, 2000
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I started a thread dealing with a possible run of a 'spyderco ' in either BG-42 or D2 steel. By 'spyderco' I mean any of Spydies.
Since 'spyderco' was left open many people gave many very interesting ideas.
The thread is here Thread

Sal made comment at the end suggesting either BG-42 Native/Milie/Paramilie (all USA made) or D2 Delica/Endura (Japan made).
Let me propose to start with ONE proposal. It seems to me that the most promising one is the following:
NATIVE
BG-42 steel
GREY HANDLE
HANDLE MATERIAL: FRN or CF
Special novelty: SAL monogram (at blade)

What we get with this Native:
1. a knife that is considered to be the very 'american'
2. the best non-powder steel
3. handle - a new color and/or material
4. Sal's monogram (Native is absolutely Sal's design).
5. a lot of possibilities for combo EDC: just imagine Native with Manix - a father's and son's design.
6. well, the best for no. 6 would be the contribution by Ken Cox in the thread:
Making runs like this sounds like extremely risky business.
I'd like to know (rhetorically) how many times Sal has responded to avid interest only to find that no one bought the special run.

I like the idea of a grey Native.
It has a neutral appearance; neither too friendly nor too threatening; perfect for an everthing EDC knife.
Grey goes with everthing, and it doesn't NOT go with anything.
I would like the knife to match the conformation of the current standard Native: slim, light, robust, practical, proven and perfectly ergonomic.
In a word, perfect.
No risk there.
In my mind, BG-42 combines the best qualities of all the most modern stainless knife steels: stain proof, bullet proof, and it takes and holds an aggressive edge (a combination of S30V, D2 and VG-10).
I consider my GIN-1 Native my most useful and prized knife.
I have carried and used it every day forever.
It works as well now as it did then.
I would consider a grey BG-42 Native irresistable and a knife I would pass on to one of my sons.
However, again, I would like it to exactly match the present day regular ol' Native, except for color and BG-42.
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So, are you interested?
Think: if we succeed, we can go for, say, D2 Endura or Milie.
Or ZDP-189 Delica - the best cutter ever.

Franco
 
Could we consider grey g10 for the handle? I like the idea as I for some strange reason have never owned a native.
Though honestly I think the fb chinook II in bg42 is the way to go;-)>
 
I must definitely second this motion! I would agree its time for a new variant to my favorite spydie. I am also a GIN-1 addict...though I found the Natives after the fact and have been collecting the older GIN-1 as I can find them or trade for them. I got one in a trade with Jhillas recently *two thumbs up*. I would like a different blade steel as well...perhaps even H1 either PE, SE, or CE. I've yet to see a fully serrated Native! Anyhow, I would support a Grey FRN handle because it would be the most likely thing Sal and friends would produce a sprint run in for us forumies. However, I too would like to see a different handle material type other than FRN and G10 for a Native....possibly a micarta or cf. I don't think we will be able to pull the strings needed to get Sal to do a CF variant because of cost and perception on my part of how the CF Delicas sold. Anyone else have a ya or na on this issue? :p
 
I must definitely second this motion! I would agree its time for a new variant to my favorite spydie. I am also a GIN-1 addict...though I found the Natives after the fact and have been collecting the older GIN-1 as I can find them or trade for them. I got one in a trade with Jhillas recently *two thumbs up*. I would like a different blade steel as well...perhaps even H1 either PE, SE, or CE. I've yet to see a fully serrated Native! Anyhow, I would support a Grey FRN handle because it would be the most likely thing Sal and friends would produce a sprint run in for us forumies. However, I too would like to see a different handle material type other than FRN and G10 for a Native....possibly a micarta or cf. I don't think we will be able to pull the strings needed to get Sal to do a CF variant because of cost and perception on my part of how the CF Delicas sold. Anyone else have a ya or na on this issue? :p
 
I would love to have a CF Native with a BG-42 blade. It would fit in so well between my CF Delica and CF Police :D Even another G-10 Native (since using G-10 wouldn't necessitate a redesign) would be fine.

David (a current owner of 1-SS, 2-FRN, and 2 G-10 Natives - but always room for more)
 
yes please.

i missed the blue g-10 and have found no one willing to part with one. so, i would definitely be in favor of this handle, but frn in a different color would be fine as well.

i recently lost my gin-1 native of 6 years (carried it everyday, boo-hoo) and replaced it with a s30v. it is my favorite knife and a new variation will only be appreciated, and bought.

on a side note, grey only "goes" with tan if you are wearing white after labor day.

k
 
Count me in, a BG-42 Native sounds good. Grey FRN is fine and would probably sell the best due to the price. I would buy a carbon fiber one also, but can't recall ever seeing any labeled as "grey". The higher price would almost certainly mean a lower volume of sales. Sculptured grey G10 would be super cool, and we know from prior runs that a G10 Native is feasible, but again think the price would have an effect on sales.
 
I agree. A gray handled BG-42 Native would be very desirable as long as it's affordable.
 
I understand, or think I understand that S30V requires relatively sophisticated heat treatment.
So does BG-42.
Could Spyderco produce a BG-42 Native for a price close to that of an S30-V Native?
 
I would go for a CF,BG42 Native.Well really I would go for 2,one to put up and one to use.
 
I would definately buy a BG-42 Native. I would prefer the CF handle, although G10 wuld be ok too.
 
To me, a Native has an FRN handle.
I don't want an expensive Native.
I'd just like to see it in some other steels.
I really doubt that one could improve on S30-V.
I mean, how does it get better in a knife the size of a Native?
Maybe VG-10, if it cuts as aggressively as people say it does.

Wanna get real esoteric?
How about a really cool carbon steel like L-6 (stains or browns easily but doesn't pit)?
Up here in the Northwest, the timber industry uses L-6 as a saw steel, and it works hard and cuts aggressively and takes a beating and resharpens like the dickens.

I could get into having a collection of Natives in a variety of very good steels, each having its unique qualities, real and imagined advantages, and appearance; but not if it cost a lot of money; nor if they deviated from each other in anything other than steel and handle color.

What if each particular steel had its own color handle?
Like, dark grey for BG-42; light grey for VG-10; midnight blue for S30-V; hunter green for L-6; burnt sienna for D-2; and, highway yellow (tractor yellow) for....?
Spyderco could do a special run of a new steel evdry year, right before Christmas. :)

L-6, W-2, or Hitachi Blue Super Steel...oooh.
How cool can it get?
 
Hey Ken, I'd like to have just a little money left.........
(even though I think that knives are better than money.....)
still, I just have to say L6 -----mmmmmmm. :)
 
Yes, L6.
I wouldn't mind oiling that puppy on occasion.
I think I would welcome the browning and staining that would come with age.
These old saws that one sees in the woods and rainforests just keep on cutting year after year.
They wipe them down and sharpen them, and not much else.
A very, very tough steel.

I just went to Spyderco's excellent steel chart and I don't see L6 on it.
I wonder why.
Anyway, L6 represents one of those steels that has a little tiny bit of everything in it, including (and especially) nickel, but mostly steel.
Somebody wrote once that really great carbon steels should have at least 96% steel in them, with lots of trace metals but not more than 2-4%.
O-1, W-2, and A-2 (I know, 5% chrome) come to mind.
A-2 has really impressed me with its toughness, and I think it has a simple heat treatment, as does O-1.
But I think of L-6 as the toughest, sharpest and most sharpenable of them all.
I wonder what kind heat treatment it requires?
A sword site of my acquaintance describes L6 as "prone to rusting, and needs more control in the hardening than the previously listed steels."
Hm.
Like I said, I'd oil it.

We haven't mentioned forge-welded steels.
I wonder if Spyderco could get some cost-effective forge-welded cable?

Fun stuff to think and talk about.
In the end, Spyderco has to sell it for a profit and I don't think we, the buying public, will pay premium prices for a Native, no matter how good the design nor how fancy the steel, 'cause we can already get a Native in S30V for almost give-away prices (considering what you get).

Of the carbon steels, though, I think I'd pay a small premium for L-6.
Of the Stainless steels, given a limited run, I'd pay a small premium for BG-42, D-2 and/or VG-10; all great steels but hardly superior to S30V (just different).
 
Ken, I really agree with the way that you seem to be "ranking" steels.
I had a conversation with a custom maker who is well known for "non-stainless" working damascus pieces, among other things. He told me that I would need to keep his piece well oiled. I replied that I was happy enough to carry hs knife around and that a few oilstains on my pants meant nothing in comaprison. I guess that I feel the same about any L6 knife that I can get my hands on-- and I agree with you again-- the discoloring would be kind of cool.

And you are right about the Native. I still can't believe that S30V for the price.
Since this is the Spyderco forum, let's have a few other suggestions for L6 pieces. I do have one or two other Spydercos that I would love to see in L6.....
 
Well, a person might prefer the shape of the Native III, and with good reason.
Spyderco put a lot thought into the Native III, and I like a few things about it myself.
However, the Native represents the original and, because of its flatness, it carries well in more locations, such as in the waistband of trousers.
And, many people consider the Native the standard for ergonomics, and so it does not lack in that regard.
I would give the nod to the original Native on the basis of nostalgia, tradition, collector value and flatness.
 
But in comparison to the BladeForums Native and some other Forum models, the CF Delica and CF Police (made in larger numbers) seemed to do well and are still in demand on the resale market.

David
 
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