Big Guns................

T

The Towcutter

Joined
Jan 16, 2001
Messages
166
I'm curious as to whom is the makes the most desireable custom knives?

Based upon scuttlebut on the forums and aftermarket sales track record, I have come to this conclusion.

The highest demand makers are:

Ernie Emerson Tom Mayo Ken Onion Mike Snody

I will not put them in any particular order, but these guys knives are pursued more thna anyone elses (so it seems). Emerson's knives command double his retail price, Mayo's sell on the Forums the second they are posted, so are Snody's. Ken Onion has his own forum where guys are begging to get a knife. They are throwing Rolex's and Omegas around trying to get one of his models.

Do you guys agree with me? Any particular maker that I missed?
 
Blackwoods seems to be highly sought after, command a high price, and don't last long in b/s/t. I know I want a Henchman...really bad.
 
What about Walter Brend? And, the list goes on ...

One thing to keep in mind about on-line forums, is that a few knife knutts can really steer the market in a direction that isn't supportted by the knife community at large.

When you have someone like Jim Siska who works full-time somewhere else and only produces a handful of knives a year, three folks with deep pockets could drive the market for his knives to astronomical levels. His work is very good but, based on sheer quantity could over shadow equally skilled knifemakers at cheaper prices because of a few hard core folks with more money then they know what do with.

Ernie Emerson is making better knives these days and his designs have some uniquness but, on build quality alone you can find many knifemakers without the name who construct a knife better. So, why are they so "desirable"?

I have two Emerson customs and two Kit Carson customs. If I had a hard core job to do, I would not hesitate when I reach into the knife bag. Price does not necessarily make it a better knife.

Mad Dog, Strider and, Busse are equally loved and hated by people in the on-line community. Does that make them more or less "desirable"?

For what it's worth, I currently own all the makers listed but two. One maker I owned and sold, the other has me on the waiting list.

Then you have the fads that come and go. There was a time when Geno Denning was hot in the on-line community but, now is rarely mentioned. His work is still top notch and his prices are comparatively low. How often do you see his name listed on the for sale boards and, when you do how long do they hang around un-sold? Now, when will that Desert Ironwood NM model be here ;)
 
The above listed makers are definitely hot right now, and many of them have been for quite awhile. These makers are hot within a certain segment of the knife community. There are many other makers that are popular within other segments.

Edited to add:

From what I can tell GenO Denning's knives are still very popular, he just doesn't get as much mention on the forums as others do. There are scads of other makers that are exceptionally popular that you hear almost nothing about in the forums.
 
Echos from the cave, got to quit useing these lead pellets for ear plugs, starting to to get blured vision. We are working through the holidays to get around these thunder storms. Sid I will have you loaded on the mule in a few days. Knifemaking for fun and profit, fast, clean, easy work. What!!! you dont belive me? Give it a try you'll see. GenO :rolleyes: :confused:
 
Towcutter,

It is understandable why you list the makers you do.

Mike Snody, Ken Onion, Neil Blackwood, Tom Mayo and Steve Ryan are all sought after makers.

The main reason is that they produce very few knives. Consequently, there is pent up demand. Additionally, people are interested in these knives because they can make a buck or two in the aftermarket on them.

Emerson knives are a different story. Their value in the aftermarket is on the decline. Do a search on BF and check the pricing and the time an Emerson sits on the for sale forum.

The main reason for the decline, is the amount of custom knives Emerson now brings to shows. He does several shows a year and brings lots of custom knives to each. There for people are more inclined to stand in line to try the lottery for one at retail price.

To Emerson's credit he did not raise his prices (which he could have easily done). While he does not control the aftermarket prices on his knives, his out put per year does effect the aftermarket price. Proof of this is the 50% decline in aftermarket prices over the last 3 years.

*** NOTE*** Pre-Tac's and Emerson logo's are on the rise in price. It is only the SPECWAR with date knives I am referring to.

Even with this decline, the knives still sell for several hundred dollars over retail in the aftermarket.

If Onion, Mayo, Blackwood, Snody, Ryan, etc. Were to produce 300 knives next year each. Bring 25-30 per show for sale at retail price. You would see those aftermarket prices drop as well.

However, since they are all part-time makers (at least at this point). That is not likely to happen in the near future.

Other makers in HUGE demand are:

Ron Lake
Michael Walker
Jess Horn
Schuyler Lovestrand
Walter Brend
Steve Fillicetti
Jerry Fisk
Harvey Dean
Joe Flournoy
John Fitch
Russ Andrews
Terry Primos
Dan Farr
RJ Martin
Kit Carson
Bill Moran
Bob Loveless
John W. Smith
Tony Bose
Reese Bose
Larry Chew
Jimmy Lile (no dot)
Jimmy Lile (hand made by James B Lile)
Jimmy Lile (no dot Rambo knives)
Robert Parrish
Phil Boguszewski
Bill Luckett
Rod Chappel (big fighters in particular)
George Herron

I know there are other makers I have missed.

Most popular makers have earned what they reap. That being said, what creates demand in the aftermarket is the lack of supply. Coupled with that fact that someone is willing to pay a high premium to get the knife. This helps drive the prices higher.

You are no longer paying for the makers work. You are now paying for the current demand for that makers work.

Talk to those who bought aftermarket SPECWAR Emersons two years ago how their knives would fair today in the aftermarket.

Collectible markets run hot until either a saturation point is reached or the items get to pricy.

Once a saturation point is reached, the aftermarket grows cold and the premium prices start to come down.

Once the item(s) get to pricy, most collectors look to the "next" thing. In hopes to getting in while it is still affordable.

If you stay in custom knives long enough you will watch the knives go through this cycle. Ive seen excpetional knife makers go out of business because they got to the point where they had only a few customers who pay the prices that their knives had gotten to.

Once one of the collectors finds a new hobby to go to. It is almost impossible to find a replacement collector. How would you do if 25 - 33% of your income stopped coming in?

In most cases the makers who get very very hot are usually producing less than 75 knives per year. Have another job or source of income. While they are very hot the lack the time to make as many knives as they would like.

If you were to take most of the well known world class makers out there. Reduce their production each year by 50%. You would see a huge demand for their knives appear. Unfortunately, if they were full time knife makers, they would no longer to make a living making custom knives.

So before you plunk down a big premium for a knife. Make sure you know where that maker and their work is headed work is headed.

***NOTE*** as with all rules there are exceptions.

What I written above is a general overview of the custom knife aftermarket.

Some of you will agree, some will disagree. That is your perogative. As always buy what you like.
 
My hot list: (not in any particular order, just alphabetical)

1. Neil Blackwood

2. Jim Hammond

3. Rick Hinderer

4. Jerry Hossom

5. Trace Rinaldi

6. Mike Snody

Also, many mucho thanks to Les Robertson for hooking me up with some real hard-to-find models....
 
Ok, Im back for more.

Keith,

All of the Internet Knife Forums are biased. In that the there are very few actual custom knife buyers, compared to the amount of memebers. Blade Fourms claims 15,000. Less than 1% of those members buy custom knives on a regular basis. This is not to say that the members who post regulary present a hurtful biased. Actually, in most cases it is quite the opposite. They cannot help singing the praises of a makers work. I think this contributes to the lines of division you see in some forums. The ones that either love or hate the maker or company. Someone goes out of their way to praise someone. At times others feel it necessary to express their disatisfaction with that same maker or company. Check out GB&U for the thread on Dale Reif as an example.


So if less than 1% of the BF memebers are active custom knife buyers. That equates to 150 or so members. I will have that many people come by my table at the Blade Show in the first hour it is open (as will any other dealer who sets up at the Blade a show). When it's all said and done, thousands will have come by. Some will "lurk" and say nothing. However, hundreds, at the big shows thousands will stop and ask questions. Handle the knives, compare knives for themselves.

Even smaller shows will still have hundreds come by and compare knives for themselves.

The reason why you don't hear about a lot of incredible makers on this and other Internet knife forums, is that the members simply don't know. Why don't they know? For the most part they are new to custom knives and are inexperienced. Note I said "inexperienced" not stupid, not ignorant, etc. They know who the "Internet Popular" makers are, but not much beyond that.

Custom knives is a difficult hobby to keep current in. It requires lots of reading, studying and experiencing things for yourself. Not simply going off of what others on the Internet say.

I have been at this for 19 years. I learn new things every week, sometimes daily.

As I stand behind my table at a show, especially one like the Blade Show. I think to myself, how does someone choose today? How could you possibly know who's work to buy?

Ok, so you get your Emerson, Onion, Snody, Blackwood and Mayo. Then what? Do you continue to pay the premiums to get those knives. On occasion you may even get one from the maker. Do you limit yourself to those 5 makers? Or do you venture out to new makers? If so, how do you choose them?

To help me back in 1987 I developed a check list to help narrow the field. Seven questions to ask the makers. I still use a modified version of this today.

I also took the sage advice of Paul Basch.

The Internet forums can be an excellent place for information. However, you must qualify this information. Non-qualifed single source information is worthless. Well perhaps not worthless...as it could cost you thousands of dollars.

You should not use just the internet. You should attend shows (and ask questions) and read everything you can about custom knives. The more you know the better choices you will make.
 
Once again Les, your advice is excellent and spot on. I wish I was in a part of the world where getting to knife shows was easy and inexpensive. If I lived in a hotbed of knives area like Arkansas, I would attend half a dozen shows, 3 or 4 hammer-ins and visit makers until they got sick of the sight of me. Maybe the thing to do would be to get a part time job and put the money made towards getting to Blade and the OKCA show each year. Something to think about.

I read as much as I can about custom knives. I have also been interested in custom knives for about 30 years, so I do tend to know of the work of a great many makers, present and past. Reading and looking at pictures can only get you so far though and I would love to get the feel for more custom knives than I have the chance to so far. I have had the chance to handle knives from makers like Bob Loveless, Lloyd Hale, Ted Dowell, Ron Lake, Brian Lyttle, Wolfgang Loerchner, D.E. Henry, Chubby Hueske, Paul Fox, Ed Fowler, Jess Horn, Mike Snody and many others, but there are so many more that I would love to check out.
 
There is nothing like Atlanta blade. If you are serious about custom knives, go there instead of buying a knife sight unseen. You will get the oppurtunity to see more knives and more people who know custom knives then you can imagine. Keep your wallet in your pocket and go there to learn and experience what it is all about. Then place your orders.

In the long run you are less apt to pay for knives that just are inappropriate for any number of reasons. I would gladly trade ill purchased knives for a trip to Atlanta Blade.
 
Actually I think the four most sought after makers are:

Loveless
Henry
Moran
Scagel

In comparison, everything else is a fad!
 
Originally posted by Anthony Lombardo
Actually I think the four most sought after makers are:

Loveless
Henry
Moran
Scagel

In comparison, everything else is a fad!
Click to expand...
That's a very interesting statement and I'm sure alot of excellent knifemakers will be kind of surprised to know that what they put heart and soul into is merely a "fad" I'll be sure to inform George Herron he really ought to find a baby to dangle over a hotel balcony instead. Thank you for that insight. ;) The Cavelady
 
Originally posted by Les Robertson

If Onion, Mayo, Blackwood, Snody, Ryan, etc. Were to produce 300 knives next year each. Bring 25-30 per show for sale at retail price. You would see those aftermarket prices drop as well.

However, since they are all part-time makers (at least at this point). That is not likely to happen in the near future.
Click to expand...
Les,

Good point but........

If I made 300 knives in one year, the value of them would soar..........because I'd be DEAD:eek: :D

As far as being part time, I've been full time for almost two years.


Neil
 
Hi Anthony,

You are welcome to your opinion.

Lets look at the most desireable makers you listed. Desireable by who? Most people can barely afford a drop point hunter made by Loveless.

Scagel, if it weren't for the fact that one of his knives inspired Bo Randall, you wouldn't even know who he was. It certainly is not for the quality of his work.

Mr. Loveless, so it doesn't bother you that he has had help in his shop for over 25 years? Man if someone was doing that today and people found out about it, there would be hell to pay.

Mr. Moran, deserves every penny he gets for any of his knives. Unfortunately, most of us can't afford one.

D.E. Henry, great work, not as desireable as they once were. Prices are coming down at auctions. Might want to re-think this one.

As far as everyone else being a Fad. You might want to re-think that statement as well. Now walking canes....those are a fad! :D
 
Darn Anthony, even if you are talking about long term collectable makers you missed names like Ron Lake, Jess Horn and how about Michael Price?
 
I stand by that statement.

Enthusiasm over any other custom knife maker is measured by dollars.
No one else on the planet can garner the cold hard cash that the work of those four gentlemen can.

Thats merely a fact, and it always brings me a chuckle when people tout the latest knifemaking icon without realizing that in 20 years the top four will still be Loveless, Henry, Moran, and Scagel and the newly minted "icon" will be long forgotten.

Les,
I have watched the prices of Henry's knives for a few years. I haven't seen any real landslides.

Cavelady,
It was no slight to Mr. Herron, but keep in mind that in my opionion Mr. Herron is a regional maker. In the South is is legend, in other parts of the country he is a relative unknown.
 
Originally posted by Anthony Lombardo


Cavelady,
It was no slight to Mr. Herron, but keep in mind that in my opionion Mr. Herron is a regional maker. In the South is is legend, in other parts of the country he is a relative unknown.
Click to expand...

Anthony,

It's late, I'm tired, I'll let someone else discuss the FAD theory:rolleyes: :p :yawn:

As far as Mr. Herron, if you follow the foreign forums, you will find he is very well known world wide. I would venture to guess (maybe Les can add somthing here) that most of his higher dollar knives sell outside of the southern USA. From what I see, the guys that know Brend also know Herron as well as many of the others on Les' list.
 
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