Big-league steel removal?

[Sword and Shield]

I've been reworking a highly abused Schrade stockman lately- clip to a wharnie, sheeps to coping, spey to small clip- and ran into a problem. Grinds are now shaped right, but the edge is pretty darn thick. I don't mean "It's 40 degrees and I want thirty", but more "It's not there."

What's the best way to hog this down? I've been using a Norton coarse Crystolon with little effect- my next thought is coarse sandpaper and a mousepad.

 

[LHD]

A DMT X coarse or XX coarse diamond plate will chew through that like its peanut butter.

 

[Sword and Shield]

Failing that (Which I can't afford at the moment), what do you think? Coarse sandpaper and just convex it?

 

[sodak]

I've never had good luck with sandpaper, I usually wear the paper smooth very quickly. Others swear by it, I'm probably pressing too hard.

I've been playing with a Norton 200 grit waterstone, pressing hard on that hogs pretty well, but it also dishes quickly. I have a DMT extra coarse (black) that I've been using with good results, seems to be just as fast as the waterstone, and easier cleanup. I'd love to try the DMT8XX that LHD mentioned, should be the fastest of all.

I used the DMT black to re-profile an RD7 in about 20 minutes, very fast. The RD7 had a pretty thick edge, but it doesn't now...

 

[db]

I now use the DMT XXC and there is just nothing like it for removing steel. However, for not alot of $ go to a hardware store or Sears and look for the black silicon carbid hones, they are about $10.00 or less. For use on a Shrade and steels like thatit will work just as well as anything. I reground a Old Timer with one in less than an hour.

 

[LHD]

Failing that (Which I can't afford at the moment), what do you think? Coarse sandpaper and just convex it?

Get one of the Smith's diamond hones from walmart. I believe they are under $10. It will wear out and is much lower quality than a DMT but they do the job. I have one of thier rod sharpeners which I believe cost around $6 that I keep for in the field touchups. If I lose it I'm out 6 bucks. They last around 6 months which is fine since I end up losing them before that in most cases.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

What's the best way to hog this down?

Power, use a belt sander or wet wheel grinder or even a dremel. Failing that use a file if it will bite into the steel, a very coarse waterstone if it will not. Sandpaper works well with the right kinds.

I've never had good luck with sandpaper, I usually wear the paper smooth very quickly.

Depends on the paper, get the 80 grit belts for use with belt sanders and attach them to strips of hardwood and use them as files. Lock the knife in a vice (or the hardwood file) and press really hard. Of course if you have the space, just buy the belt sander.

However, for not alot of $ go to a hardware store or Sears and look for the black silicon carbid hones, they are about $10.00 or less.

He has a norton coarse silicon carbide stone already which isn't working. A half an hour to reprofile a small stockman is also really slow. Adjusting the angle on a small folder is a manner of minutes with the right stone.

-Cliff

 

[Shann]

I've used a sanding disc for a disc grinder as my "sandpaper" when taking down an HI kumar karda, that was really thick stock (although a short knife) and it worked well. It was only a couple of bucks. It worked much better than the attempts at using sandpaper has.

 

[db]

Well Cliff I believe he isn't talking about ajusting the edge angle he wants to re-grind the blade grind. I don't know how the Norton Stone is compared to the cheap hardware store hones, but I've read alot about how the Norton 220 stone is not a very good one. As for me regrinding a Shrade Old Timer in about an hour it has 3 blades and I was taking my time with all of them because I wanted to do a good job on them and it was worth it to me. I probably could have done all 3 blades alot quicker if I didn't care how it looked, but I do care. It's my Opinion that the cheap hardware stones are a better buy than the sandpaper for this type of work. They are probably quicker too if you count the setup time for sandpaper mounting on wood and replaceing the paper after it wears out. I have a belt sander and don't use it much anymore for this type of regrinding because doing it by hand even with the cheap hardware store stone was just as fast when you factor in cleanup, setup, and really start to finished, sittting down with a beer.

 

[db]

SS another thought is could your Norton stone be plugged up? Try giving it a good cleaning and see if that helps with your regrinding.

 

[sodak]

Failing that (Which I can't afford at the moment), what do you think? Coarse sandpaper and just convex it?

Oops, I need to read more carefully. I would try Cliff's idea of the belt sander or 80 grit belt for the belt sander. You could use it slack for convexing, or on a 2x4 as he suggested for speedy steel removal. Any way you look at it, these jobs are tedious without power tools, at least, when you are trying to be careful. When you're just removing steel without regards to looks (like I was), you can just power away...

 

[Sword and Shield]

SS another thought is could your Norton stone be plugged up? Try giving it a good cleaning and see if that helps with your regrinding.

Possible. I'm going to give it a good scrubbing and see. Power's right out of the question- no tools.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I don't know how the Norton Stone is compared to the cheap hardware store hones ...

It is the favorite of many of the high end makers like Goddard, he recommends it in pretty much everything he writes on sharpening, Wilson is the same. Many of them finish on the fine india side, Wilson leaves it with the coarse side for maximum slicing aggression.

They are probably quicker too if you count the setup time for sandpaper mounting on wood and replaceing the paper after it wears out.

Set up time is pretty much instant, you just staple it to a piece of wood. To wear it out requires a *lot* of grinding, you would have a large hollow in any stone by that time and the time it takes to lap a stone is many times greater. To replace it you just tear it out and staple on another piece.

I have a belt sander and don't use it much anymore for this type of regrinding because doing it by hand even with the cheap hardware store stone was just as fast when you factor in cleanup, setup, and really start to finished ...

Try turning the belt sander on.

Belt sanders turn at 3000+ ft/s, to match the speed you need to make 75 passes per second on a 8" stone of similar grit. In general it is difficult to even do five per second at heavy pressure for any sustained length of time so a sander is easily ten to one, which is why you don't see a lot of knife makers using stones to make knives.

There are some knives I don't use a belt sander on because the edges are too thin. When blades get under 0.010" thick, unless they are HSS, they over heat too rapidly. When they get really thin, under 0.005", and under 10 degrees per side, they tend to burn almost instantly. You really need a water cooled system for those geometries.

-Cliff

 

[Native Justice]

Try buying a replacement grinding wheel stone in coarse grit. Best $5-6 bucks at Lowes or Home Depot you can spend. Use it and pitch it when it dishes.

 

[sodak]

By the way, if you go with the Norton India stones, they are only about $8 or $10 on line. Not much more than the "cheapies".

Just for fun, I picked up a coarse/fine no-name at Home Depot. One side blue, the other brown. I can't figure out which is which for the life of me.... Tells you how bad I am....

 

[db]

"
Cliff said..
Try turning the belt sander on.

Now that is a good idea don't know why I didn't think of that.

"
Native Justice said...
Try buying a replacement grinding wheel stone in coarse grit. Best $5-6 bucks at Lowes or Home Depot you can spend. Use it and pitch it when it dishes.
I'm assumeing your useing it like a big round bench stone. Great idea I never thought of useing them I have 2 old ones I'll have to give them a try.

 

[John Frankl]

Sodak,

Those stones at Home Depot are Norton too. They are silicon carbide and cut well. The brown is the coarser grit. They are much cheaper than the Norton Crystalon stones because they are not "filled with oil" at the factory. This means that much of whatever lubricant you use with them winds up soaking right through, rather than pooling on the surface as with the better Norton stones.

John

 

[Mtn Hawk]

The best way yet I've found to hog off metal is with a Razor Edge Coarse Hone. For reasons I don't understand, this works faster for me than a 1 X 30
sander with a 50 grit belt or a DMT XXC.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

The best way yet I've found to hog off metal is with a Razor Edge Coarse Hone. For reasons I don't understand, this works faster for me than a 1 X 30
sander with a 50 grit belt or a DMT XXC.

Many people are under the mistaken impression that if you press hard on a belt sander the blade overheats instantly and thus go feather light and this really scuttles the cutting speed. This isn't the case. You need to adjust your pressure with the steel type and the blade cross section thickness, but given the over thickness of most knives you can lean really hard. On most knives that I regrind the pressure I use is limited by the curvature induced so I can't press too hard or else the angle goes too high. You can press harder on the platen but the heat produced there is massive as the belt heats up them as it is squat between the blade and the steel support and the heat produces is much greater. You might be able to compensate for it with a strong blower to increase circulation.

-Cliff

 

[sodak]

Sodak,

Those stones at Home Depot are Norton too. They are silicon carbide and cut well. The brown is the coarser grit. They are much cheaper than the Norton Crystalon stones because they are not "filled with oil" at the factory. This means that much of whatever lubricant you use with them winds up soaking right through, rather than pooling on the surface as with the better Norton stones.

John

Thanks for the info. You are right, these are like sponges! But they work quite well, and were very cheap.