bike suspension

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hawkpatriot

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Jul 20, 2004
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I have a Mongoose Scorch mountain bike (not a fancy bike but it works) with full suspension. I've heard that full suspension is better for going downhill, but you sacrifice uphill ease with it. Is that true? And which do you think is better, full or half?
 
Full suspension bounces when you pedal hard, especially if you're standing. Some power is lost too, both in the bouncing and in binding (although binding is less of an issue now than it was with older technology). With downhill, you're pedaling less and coasting more, so the suspension gives you a cooshier ride, plus more control since it keeps the rear wheel on the ground better. Then of course, there's the weight difference. A fully decked out downhill bike can weight as much as 10 pounds heavier than a hardtail, mostly because the parts are beefed up (especially the huge forks they stick on these), and they can add the weight because going downhill, it really doesn't matter. Uphill (or flat), you want to save as much weight as possible. FS bikes will always weight more (generally speaking--within same price range) than a hardtail.

I have a FS bike (Kona Kahuna) and it's great (nice soft ride) but I do find myself wishing I got a hardtail instead, as I'd have more power and less weight. For around the town jaunts, either will do, just be aware of the tradeoffs and decide which you prefer.
 
Kinda depends....

The very best (read-extremely expensive) dualies are light in weight, and have the rear suspension cleverly arranged so as to virtually eliminate pedal-induced suspension input. (bouncing....)

These may feature high-end "air" shocks, super-light frames of exotic materials, and so forth.

There are, as I recall, a few pro mountain-bike racers campaigning dualies, though at last I read, the hardtail still reigns in the pro ranks.

Then there's the minimalist approach, as the one model with a titanium frame and a simple elastomer spring where the seatstays attach to the frame. No actual suspension pivot, the flex of the TI frame provides about 1" of travel.
Just enough to take the edge off sharpish impacts.
 
hawkpatriot said:
I have a Mongoose Scorch mountain bike (not a fancy bike but it works) with full suspension. I've heard that full suspension is better for going downhill, but you sacrifice uphill ease with it. Is that true? And which do you think is better, full or half?
Click to expand...
Please tell me that you do not take this bike on the trail?! :eek: Lower end bikes like the Scorch should not be trail ridden. The components, frame, shocks are not designed to perform and stand up to the rigors of trail riding. You are bound to seriously injure yourself when bikes like these are flaunted by the retail stores as "trail ready".

To answer your question.........most higher end bikes come equipped with a front shock of some sort that is relatively designed for the intended purpose. Most higher end shocks now have lock-outs which, when engaged, prevent travel of the front or rear shock making uphill climbs easier. Pedal bob is eliminated for the most part. Once you get to the top you can disengage the lock-out and ride downhill.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Please tell me that you do not take this bike on the trail?! :eek: Lower end bikes like the Scorch should not be trail ridden. The components, frame, shocks are not designed to perform and stand up to the rigors of trail riding. You are bound to seriously injure yourself when bikes like these are flaunted by the retail stores as "trail ready".

To answer your question.........most higher end bikes come equipped with a front shock of some sort that is relatively designed for the intended purpose. Most higher end shocks now have lock-outs which, when engaged, prevent travel of the front or rear shock making uphill climbs easier. Pedal bob is eliminated for the most part. Once you get to the top you can disengage the lock-out and ride downhill.
Click to expand...

Well actually I do trail ride it. Just around some neighborhood trails in the woods and a state park, here in my part of MD there aren't many hard (rocky, mountainous) trails like there are in other parts of the country. And you can always get new brakes and shocks to replace stock parts. The Scorch isn't really a crappy bike, it's just low-end. It gets the job done without costing you $2000 for a technical fancy bike.
 
Important danger sign on the trails.....Bike parts. Hehe. Once I saw a saddle lying there.
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Please tell me that you do not take this bike on the trail?! :eek: Lower end bikes like the Scorch should not be trail ridden. The components, frame, shocks are not designed to perform and stand up to the rigors of trail riding. You are bound to seriously injure yourself when bikes like these are flaunted by the retail stores as "trail ready".

To answer your question.........most higher end bikes come equipped with a front shock of some sort that is relatively designed for the intended purpose. Most higher end shocks now have lock-outs which, when engaged, prevent travel of the front or rear shock making uphill climbs easier. Pedal bob is eliminated for the most part. Once you get to the top you can disengage the lock-out and ride downhill.
Click to expand...

Ken,
I thought you were being elitist but after reviewing the specs on the Scorch I have to agree in part with you.

The frame should not be in question. Mongoose offers the standard limited lifetime warranty on their frame. I'm not familiar with the componentry offered but if the bike is used for occasional off-road use and if regular maintenance and a comprehensive pre and post ride inspection is done I think the Scorch could be an acceptable entry level lite use MTB. The pivot arm in particular bears watching. It looks frail (IMO) and the rear shock supports could be susceptable to stress cracks and failure. I have not seen the front shock before but would recommend the normal nspection of the fork for wear, leakage, stiction, and freeplay. Doubt if most shops would rebuild it on failure.

Personally I prefer a hard-tail for trails. I have a '99 model Gary Fisher Paragon that I upgraded to Race Face Turbine crankset and full XTR shifting. Upgrades can improve the quality of your ride but I think you are frame limited with the Scorch.

I won't deny that FS smooths the ride on downhills and allows better control of the bike but I'm just not a fan because of the what I see as loss of climbing ability due to enrgy transfer to the rear suspension. I also don't like fumbling for lock-outs on rapidly changing technical trails. FS bikes used to be called "monkey motion" - still fits for some.

Keep on riding on. Pay attention to the little idiosyncrasies of the bike and when your ready to upgrade you will really appreciate the difference. You don't need to spend $2,000+ for a decent MTB. You can find a decent FS or hard-tail for less than a grand at many bike retailers and there are e-retailers like Speedgoat.com, Bike Nashbar, or Supergo that sometimes have well equiped MTBs in the $500 - 700 price range.

j
 
I'm with Java.
Hardtails rule!
Specially Steel Hardtails.
I'm on my 4th.
Unless you've ridden a quality steel hardtail, you really haven't exerienced true mountain bike bliss.
There are so many different FS designs, some very specialized, some not good at anything.
I can ride faster in just about all situations on my steel hardtail than my friends can on their FS bikes.
If you're serious about mountain biking, read every bike review you can. Dirt Rag does the best real world reviews.
Also, ride all your friends' FS bikes.
Go to bike shops and ride all the FS designs there.
Ask tons of questions.
Then come to the logical conclusion that a steel hardtail is really the only choice. :D
Lenny
 
K.V. Collucci said:
Most higher end shocks now have lock-outs which, when engaged, prevent travel of the front or rear shock making uphill climbs easier. Pedal bob is eliminated for the most part. Once you get to the top you can disengage the lock-out and ride downhill.
Click to expand...

You are correct. I have been riding for the last 8 years a Cannondale F700 that has the headshock suspension and it is helpful to be able to lock out the suspension when needed. The other thing I think of as a great innovation relatively recently is the hydra-pack or camelback hydration system.
 
Life as we know it did not exist before the Camelback.
I'd rather give up a testicle over my Camelback MULE.
Lenny

PS: giving up a testicle might make my seat more comfy too
 
Lenny said:
Life as we know it did not exist before the Camelback.
I'd rather give up a testicle over my Camelback MULE.
Lenny
Click to expand...

Well I wouldn't go that far, but Camelbaks, especially the MULE, are worth more than they cost.

BTW, can anyone recommend any Santa Cruz, Cannondale, or other quality bikes for under $600? Thanks.
 
Santa Cruz Blur.
One of the best XC FS bikes out there.
It'll cost quite a bit more than $600 though.
Belly up and buy it.
The best of anything never comes cheap.
It all depends how serious about the sport you are.
Lenny
 
Lenny said:
I'm with Java.
Hardtails rule!
Specially Steel Hardtails.
I'm on my 4th.
Unless you've ridden a quality steel hardtail, you really haven't exerienced true mountain bike bliss.
There are so many different FS designs, some very specialized, some not good at anything.
I can ride faster in just about all situations on my steel hardtail than my friends can on their FS bikes.
If you're serious about mountain biking, read every bike review you can. Dirt Rag does the best real world reviews.
Also, ride all your friends' FS bikes.
Go to bike shops and ride all the FS designs there.
Ask tons of questions.
Then come to the logical conclusion that a steel hardtail is really the only choice. :D
Lenny
Click to expand...

And what do you have against titanium hardtails?

Mark
 
Camelbacks...my standard water bottle lasted until the first time I tried to suck water through the caked-on swamp goo....hehe.

My last MTB was a Schwinn Moab3, that's the more expensive one. Came in at right around 1000.00. Great bike. Everytime I rode it I liked it better. The only downside was the Rockshox fork, in which the damping unit died rather rapidly. Replacement was rather costly, and I considered just changing over to an air unit for only a few bucks more.

Sold it before I did, though. Got too difficult to find time to go riding with my schedule, and the wife constantly fretted that I'd break a leg or something out on the trails. Now I ride my police bike around campus, and my Trek roadster around the local park.
 
I rode steel hardtails for the longest time before I got my first aluminum frame. I will ride nothing but aluminum now for the trails and downhill. I still have a steel frame that i kick around every once and awhile. My downhill bike is an Intense M1 and my freeride/trail bike is a Specialized Hard Rock Pro hardtail. I can literally hit 10 ft jumps and not feel a thing on the M1. With 200mm of front travel and 50mm in the rear it's like landing on a nice cushy mattress. I have it set with minimal rebound. My hardtail is a true dirt eater. This bike spits up the trail and takes some serious abuse. I ride with the seat in the lowest position possible so I can sit back on the bike and get that extra power when I pedal out of a hair pin turn on a berm and set up for the double jumps. With 130mm of front end travel with air compression I can set up the fork for any type of riding.
 
Minjin,
Only thing I have against Ti hardtails is the price.
I had my heart set on a Moots Rigor Mootis.
Alas, my wallet said no.
But, I firmly believe you get 99% the performance of Ti with Steel.
I bought a Sycip Reynolds 853 Steel hardtail, custom built for me.
The thing handles like I have a telepathic connection with it.
It's light, and sucks up all the little stuff, and dampens out all the high frequency vibrations. Super stable in the curves, and literally flies down hills. If I ever win the lottery, I'll buy the Moots, or maybe even a Seven Sola.
Probably have to buy a FS some day too.
Lenny
 
mwerner said:
Camelbacks...my standard water bottle lasted until the first time I tried to suck water through the caked-on swamp goo....hehe.
Click to expand...

Dude, you're supposed to clean those things every once in a while otherwise it can make you very sick.
 
hawkpatriot said:
BTW, can anyone recommend any Santa Cruz, Cannondale, or other quality bikes for under $600? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Gary Fisher Tassajara. Read the reviews, then go test ride one and compare it to anything else in its price range.
www.mtbr.com
 
CMD--- The swamp crud was on the outside..... :D

Serially, those using Camelbacks and similar devices need to keep em' clean, lest all sorts of icky scum grow inside the bladder.

There are a number of "air-dry" stretchers you can put inside to ensure drying, or you can make your own from a coat hanger.
 
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