Bin Laden

[Bill Sanders]

Osama Bin Laden is dead...however, we must still remain vigilant as we wait for the inevitable retaliation from Al Qaida or any other splinter cell from them. We can celebrate the end of the individual who brought pain and suffering to this nation. But the job is not totally done and we cannot let our guard down over the removal of one figurehead.
I hear calls for immediate return of our troops. We won a victory, but the war is not over.

 

[Howard Wallace]

This is a timely topic and an emotional one. I just had to close one thread on this. Let's see if we can, as a community, self-police this discussion and nip any devisive argumentation in the bud.

There is value in processing this data with friends.

 

[Ugly Duck]

 

[7rip13a]

Osama Bin Laden is dead...however, we must still remain vigilant as we wait for the inevitable retaliation from Al Qaida or any other splinter cell from them. We can celebrate the end of the individual who brought pain and suffering to this nation. But the job is not totally done and we cannot let our guard down over the removal of one figurehead.
I hear calls for immediate return of our troops. We won a victory, but the war is not over.

+1, it's a serious blow, but not the finishing blow. As usual, hoping the troops stay safe.

 

[HairahSitna]

It's the book that is evil - not just the followers of the book. With literally billions of muslims worldwide, this one death might make us feel good for a little bit, but has done nothing to really make us safer here in the U.S.
There have been other attacks in the U.S. carried out since 9/11 that have cost American lives. Ft. Hood comes to mind.....

Until we have responsible leadership that will recognize the enemy and take it on full force like Thomas Jefferson did by sending in the marines to crush the islamic terrorist, hijacking, murdering, raping, slave selling denizens of North Africa who were pirating our ships and selling our sailors into white slavery, the problems will only get worse, much worse.
"To the shores of Tripoli" > seems like those "religion of peacers" are at it still over there huh ? Seen any news from Tripoli lately ? Gotta love those islamic run states.

Thomas Jefferson owned a koran and used it as evidence before congress that we could not trust muslims to keep their word. It is called "taquiya" a hallowed principle of islam - Lying to a nonbeliever to further islam is perfectly ok. It took old TJ a few times being lied to and taken advantage of as well as a large part of our GNP going to those sick murderers before he figured out what today's leaders can't:
islam itself is the enemy of all western societal freedoms and thought. period.

 

[pbonanza]

It's the book that is evil - not just the followers of the book.

please take it from someone who grew up in a ~50% Muslim neighbourhood and owns a qur'an that it is not the book or its followers who are evil, it is the few who construe its meaning and misinterpret it for their own geopolitical ends. The same applies to the Bible, of course.

I was recently in an english language school in Dakar, Senegal (a 95% muslim country) talking to the head of studies. he was Muslim, and I have literally never seen anyone so passionately outraged by these people who give his faith a horrific reputation.

I quote - "These are not Muslims, this is not Islam'

I'm sure he, as will I, will be toasting the death of Bin Laden tonight.

 

[Howard Wallace]

It's the book that is evil - not just the followers of the book. With literally billions of muslims worldwide, this one death might make us feel good for a little bit, but has done nothing to really make us safer here in the U.S.
There have been other attacks in the U.S. carried out since 9/11 that have cost American lives. Ft. Hood comes to mind.....

Until we have responsible leadership that will recognize the enemy and take it on full force like Thomas Jefferson did by sending in the marines to crush the islamic terrorist, hijacking, murdering, raping, slave selling denizens of North Africa who were pirating our ships and selling our sailors into white slavery, the problems will only get worse, much worse.
"To the shores of Tripoli" > seems like those "religion of peacers" are at it still over there huh ? Seen any news from Tripoli lately ? Gotta love those islamic run states.

Thomas Jefferson owned a koran and used it as evidence before congress that we could not trust muslims to keep their word. It is called "taquiya" a hallowed principle of islam - Lying to a nonbeliever to further islam is perfectly ok. It took old TJ a few times being lied to and taken advantage of as well as a large part of our GNP going to those sick murderers before he figured out what today's leaders can't:
islam itself is the enemy of all western societal freedoms and thought. period.

You have just painted a whole people, and their scripture, with one brush.

Many people feel as you do, no doubt.

We have seen in the recent past what painting a whole group of people with a single brush does to the atmosphere here. Not to speak of the effect on the Islamic Cantinistas.

I hate locking threads and playing cop. Also, I don't have time to watch like a hawk during the week because I have other work to do to pay the bills. I'll look back at this later and if it is going towards more denigration of large groups of people solely based on their religion I'll lock it down, if another mod has not already done so.

Anyone who really wants to continue in this vein, take it elsewhere.

 

[HairahSitna]

please take it from someone who grew up in a ~50% Muslim neighbourhood and owns a qur'an that it is not the book or its followers who are evil, it is the few who construe its meaning and misinterpret it for their own geopolitical ends. The same applies to the Bible, of course.

I was recently in an english language school in Dakar, Senegal (a 95% muslim country) talking to the head of studies. he was Muslim, and I have literally never seen anyone so passionately outraged by these people who give his faith a horrific reputation.

I quote - "These are not Muslims, this is not Islam'

I'm sure he, as will I, will be toasting the death of Bin Laden tonight.

Very practiced dhimmitude you have there. I will never submit.

 

[pbonanza]

Very practiced dhimmitude you have there. I will never submit.

not addressing any of my points suggests you have nothing to say to any of them.

RE the last comment of your first post, I would say that extreme Islam being a threat to western societal freedom is no different from extreme Christianity posing the same threat. you need to distinguish between extremists of all faiths and moderates of those faiths.

 

[HairahSitna]

I was just checking the laws of Iran and Saudi Arabia. 2 islamic ruled countries, one is supposedly our ally one we are close to war with again and again.

The official laws of both countries call for a death sentence for leaving islam. Do you understand that ? Death is the OFFICIAL response for leaving islam enshrined in both of their their constitutions !!!

Chopping off hands for stealing, both feet and hands if very serious theft. Penalties ranging from public flogging to stoning for "adultery". Which could be just being alone with a person of the opposite sex while sitting on a bench in public.
If those laws sound good to you, by all means go live there. I will fight to the death to keep those laws from ever being implemented in the U.S. this is my country, and I say NO to sharia.

 

[HairahSitna]

I was just checking the laws of Iran and Saudi Arabia. 2 islamic ruled countries, one is supposedly our ally one we are close to war with again and again.

The official laws of both countries call for a death sentence for leaving islam. Do you understand that ? Death is the OFFICIAL response for leaving islam enshrined in both of their their constitutions !!!

Chopping off hands for stealing, both feet and hands if very serious theft. Penalties ranging from public flogging to stoning for "adultery". Which could be just being alone with a person of the opposite sex while sitting on a bench in public.
If those laws sound good to you, by all means go live there. I will fight to the death to keep those laws from ever being implemented in the U.S. this is my country, and I say NO to sharia.

Of course there is always some one who knew a muslim and he was cool. i bet some people knew some of the 9/11 hijackers and they never hurt them personally so they must be ok. makes sense.

I bet Nidal Malik Hasan had some friends here before he grabbed a machine gun and started mowing down his unarmed comrades while screaming "akbah allah". 13 counts of premeditated murder and 32 counts of attempted murder later we see he was maybe not such a good American, but a very good muslim. (practiced taquiya and killed infidels) At what point do they become extreme ? When they are yelling for us to die or when they pull the trigger ?

We had no problem destroying the nazis, not all the people mind you, the leadership and infrastructure in such a way the nazis could not survive. The German people are still going strong, we just destroyed an evil destructive ideology. The same thing applies to islam. I don't want to see all of them dead. Much better for the world they lose the ism of destruction which is islam. Islam is no religion in the western sense, that is what people are missing. It governs every single thing muslims do, with the strictest and cruelest of all penalties that could be handed out to muslims themselves and far worse to non-believers.

 

[pbonanza]

you think the people in positions of power in Saudi/Iran/the taliban/countless other regimes don't just use the divine to justify their own will. come on.
doesn't Christianity say that all non-believers will burn in hell for all eternity. I mean, if you believe that to be literally true then a death sentence on top doesn't actually seem a whole lot worse.

all in all, you are opposed to all the right things, radicalism, religious imperialism, sharia law (which is horrific). I'm just trying to say that it is wildly inaccurate to say that all Muslim's subscribe to these things. indeed, there are those in almost every faith who have similar beliefs.
for example, the inquistion of the vatican still exists as an institution, they just changed the name in the 60's. they spent over a thousand years banning books and punishing, torturing, killing and waging war against non-catholics, amongst other things. is this not a huge threat to western societal freedom? of course it is. but general ignorance leads people to forget about it. and in just the same way as in Islam, the vast majority of catholics would never condone and are actually against such actions.

I'm sure 99% of Christians would be horrified and offended if i was to lump them into the same group and belief system as the westboro baptist church. of course, most are not, that's a ridiculous thing to say, but it is a generalisation not that dissimilar to those you are making.

 

[HairahSitna]

doesn't Christianity say that all non-believers will burn in hell for all eternity. I mean, if you believe that to be literally true then a death sentence on top doesn't actually seem a whole lot worse.
That statement is ridiculous sir. To say that someone who believes you are going to hell for leaving a religion is the same as the constitution of islamic countries that say BY LAW apostates MUST be killed is....well it's obvious.
So someone thinking I'm going to hell is as bad as actually killing people huh ? care to explain that ? It's a lot different to the person who is going to be killed I'm sure !! give me the choice of living knowing christians think I'm going to burn in hell or being killed by muslims, I know which choice I would take.

all in all, you are opposed to all the right things, radicalism, religious imperialism, sharia law (which is horrific). I'm just trying to say that it is wildly inaccurate to say that all Muslim's subscribe to these things. indeed, there are those in almost every faith who have similar beliefs.
Not all muslim's will cut off an unbelievers head, but the majority of them will sympathize with the cutter not the cutee. Proven time and time again by riots for koran burning but none in the streets for killing infedels.

for example, the inquistion of the vatican still exists as an institution, they just changed the name in the 60's. they spent over a thousand years banning books and punishing, torturing, killing and waging war against non-catholics, amongst other things. is this not a huge threat to western societal freedom? of course it is. but general ignorance leads people to forget about it. and in just the same way as in Islam, the vast majority of catholics would never condone and are actually against such actions.

Lol The inquisition..... still killing ? get real.

I'm sure 99% of Christians would be horrified and offended if i was to lump them into the same group and belief system as the westboro baptist church. of course, most are not, that's a ridiculous thing to say, but it is a generalisation not that dissimilar to those you are making.

The westboro baptist church devotees haven't killed anyone. I find some of their actions disgusting, but as long as they don't kill anyone they are not on the same level as islam. Protesting funerals is not the same as cutting off heads.

It is no generalisation when the book itself calls for these things, that is what you miss. Jesus didn't command his followers to kill and rape and steal. muhammed did. That's the BIG difference.

 

[Howard Wallace]

Infraction issued.

Thread locked.