Blade design advice

[Will Estes]

I'm designing this knife for a friend of mine, and I am having some trouble on the blade. I drew it on 1/4" graph paper if that helps visualize it. I am thinking of just grinding all the way up and if I think it needs it then I could do a top swedge. I am worried that if I keep it flat then it will look like a big empty space, but I am also a little worried that the swedge will make it look like a giant dagger, and I don't like that look. I am looking to keep the general shape of the blade, but I will probably tweak it a bit as I work on it, especially on the point end. I am going to ease off the curve so it will end up between the current mark and the erased section. I am going to satin finish it, if that helps. I don't want to do any sort of hollow grinding on it, but I did consider doing a small fuller along the spine. I'm not good enough at hollow grinding to put it on something for someone else, so I want to keep it to a flat grind. I may also just grind the primary bevel and then go from there. If I think it looks good then I will stop there, but if it could use something else then I might add something else. What do you think? Also, does anyone have any tips for designing bigger knives? I mostly do smaller bushcrafter-style knives, so it feels like there is a lot of empty space whenever I do something this big. Thanks!

 

[Richard338]

I used to sketch on graph paper and there is nothing wrong with that. I switched to Illustrator. It lets me put in anchor points and then connect them with straight or curved sections. Between varying the curves and moving the anchors themselves, you can explore a lot of possibilities quickly.
On your knife above, I would drop the tip a little more and then remove some belly to make it more pointy like what you erased. You slowly drop the spine, you could compare a straight clip (long or short).

 

[Will Estes]

Oh, yeah, sometimes I use AutoCAD, but I can't ever get it to look as good when I design it in that as when I draw it first and then copy it over. I tried to use Illustrator but I couldn't make had nor tail of it! if I drop the spine could I make the piece coming out of the handle curved and then make the last bit straight? Is that what you mean? Also, if I ground a clip into the end is there a way to make the transition from flat to clip a little less abrupt? I've done that on a couple knives and it just looks like I'm going for something tactical, and I want to avoid that aesthetic. Maybe I could do it sort of like a Randall model 12 bowie and just continue the clip straight back until the spine curves over it?

 

[Spey]

Three F's of good design & execution:
Form Follows Function

 

[RyanSean97]

Id say take the tip back up where you had it, and grind it all the way up. You can always add a swedge if you want to, but that way you won't have so much meat of the flats sitting there. Grinding further up will ultimately help the geometry especially being a flat grind.

 

[Richard338]

Oh, yeah, sometimes I use AutoCAD, but I can't ever get it to look as good when I design it in that as when I draw it first and then copy it over. I tried to use Illustrator but I couldn't make had nor tail of it! if I drop the spine could I make the piece coming out of the handle curved and then make the last bit straight? Is that what you mean? Also, if I ground a clip into the end is there a way to make the transition from flat to clip a little less abrupt? I've done that on a couple knives and it just looks like I'm going for something tactical, and I want to avoid that aesthetic. Maybe I could do it sort of like a Randall model 12 bowie and just continue the clip straight back until the spine curves over it?

I frustrate easily enough and will admit that I almost didn't make it over the hump with Illustrator. I can do enough for my purpose now and like that I can print copies and save it etc. I don't want to give too many specific suggestions on this piece since it should look good to you and your friend, not me.

 

[Will Estes]

Three F's of good design & execution:
Form Follows Function

Hmmm. That's a really good tip, but I don't know what he will be using it for. I can't imagine him using it for anything heavy. I think it is more of a decorative-ish piece than anything else, because he asked me to make it match his car. I'm sure he'll use it, but I don't think he'll need to use it to do anything really big knife-worthy. Now, that's not to say that I'm not considering how it will cut, but I don't think it is quite as big of a concern as if I were making it for someone who would be using it all the time. What do you think is a good middle ground?

 

[Will Estes]

I frustrate easily enough and will admit that I almost didn't make it over the hump with Illustrator. I can do enough for my purpose now and like that I can print copies and save it etc. I don't want to give too many specific suggestions on this piece since it should look good to you and your friend, not me.

This is an interesting one because I asked him what he wanted it to look like and he said that he wanted it to match the car and he wanted it to be big, but other than that surprise him! I think the suggestions about the tip and profile were good! I have an idea for those, so I will mess around and see what I come up with. Thank you!

 

[Spey]

What do you think is a good middle ground?

Personally, I don't think there is a middle ground on a tool (other than as related to color, etc.). Form Follows Function

In my mind the sexiest things on a blade or any tool are directly related to the function they were designed based upon, and how well they execute that function. First hand experiences are the only ways to learn.

Example:
A false/faux edge on part of the spine might give the impression of much greater stabbing and penetrating power. However that unsharpened false edge would pale in comparison to a properly sharpened edge/spine. That same false edge will absolutely destroy a baton in use. Additionally, LEO's and the court system would most likely see a false secondary edged blade as a weapon vs. tool which could prove significant.

By comparison grinding a clip point with a flat spine would increase the penetrating effectiveness, while doing little to decrease the functionality in other applications like the baton example above (would actually make it a better tool overall in my mind).

I write this, having just recently ground off the false-edge-spine on an Extrema Ratio Dobermann IV, effectively turning it into an extremely pointy drop point, with greatly increased performance when it comes to working with wood. The owner says I ground out the ugly (what many might consider sexy), and he has reported back to me great gains in practical applications not to mention the knife just looks better (to a trained eye).

Hope something useful for you here ;-)

 

[gazz98]

Overall, I like the general design.

But ...
1. What size glove does he/she wear? Where the fingers rest, it is about 3.6". That is on the small side. As a member of the big paw club (2xl+ glove), I run into problems on handles quite a bit.
2. That is really a long blade when you compare it to the handle length. What is the handle material? It might be blade heavy.
3. Lanyard hole?
4. If you sharpen the swedge, make sure it is legal in their area. A double sided blade (ie. dagger) might violate some laws.
5. For the tip, I'd vote for something in between what is drawn and the erased area like you said.

 

[Will Estes]

Personally, I don't think there is a middle ground on a tool (other than as related to color, etc.). Form Follows Function

In my mind the sexiest things on a blade or any tool are directly related to the function they were designed based upon, and how well they execute that function. First hand experiences are the only ways to learn.

Example:
A false/faux edge on part of the spine might give the impression of much greater stabbing and penetrating power. However that unsharpened false edge would pale in comparison to a properly sharpened edge/spine. That same false edge will absolutely destroy a baton in use. Additionally, LEO's and the court system would most likely see a false secondary edged blade as a weapon vs. tool which could prove significant.

By comparison grinding a clip point with a flat spine would increase the penetrating effectiveness, while doing little to decrease the functionality in other applications like the baton example above (would actually make it a better tool overall in my mind).

I write this, having just recently ground off the false-edge-spine on an Extrema Ratio Dobermann IV, effectively turning it into an extremely pointy drop point, with greatly increased performance when it comes to working with wood. The owner says I ground out the ugly (what many might consider sexy), and he has reported back to me great gains in practical applications not to mention the knife just looks better (to a trained eye).

Hope something useful for you here ;-)

Interesting. Then it might make more sense to do just the clip, then. I'll think about that some more. Thanks!

 

[Will Estes]

Overall, I like the general design.

But ...
1. What size glove does he/she wear? Where the fingers rest, it is about 3.6". That is on the small side. As a member of the big paw club (2xl+ glove), I run into problems on handles quite a bit.
2. That is really a long blade when you compare it to the handle length. What is the handle material? It might be blade heavy.
3. Lanyard hole?
4. If you sharpen the swedge, make sure it is legal in their area. A double sided blade (ie. dagger) might violate some laws.
5. For the tip, I'd vote for something in between what is drawn and the erased area like you said.

1. I'll have to ask him. He's a pretty big guy so it may well be too small. I have some knives with handles both bigger and smaller than the drawing and this seemed like a good middle ground, but it would be a good idea to double-check before cutting it out.
2. I'm using G-10, so that will be pretty light. I usually drill a bunch of holes in the handle for weight reduction, but I was planning to just drill a few for glue purchase. I didn't think that I would need to try to make the handle lighter.
3. Is there any particular reason to add one other than personal preference? I didn't even think about adding one but I may ask him and see if he wants one. I'm going to try and contour the handle quite a bit and I don't think he will be using it for anything that would require more than that to keep it in his hand.
4. I'm not planning to sharpen the swedge, but I think it would be fine if I did. He's in Texas, so I don't think it would be a problem. I didn't consider that though, so if I make one of these for someone else that would be good to think about.
5. That's what I was thinking!

I didn't really think about a bunch of those things, so thanks for bringing them up! These will be good to consider for this one as well as others.

 

[1911bphil]

Please keep us updated with this project. I am very interested in this.

 

[gazz98]

1. I'll have to ask him. He's a pretty big guy so it may well be too small. I have some knives with handles both bigger and smaller than the drawing and this seemed like a good middle ground, but it would be a good idea to double-check before cutting it out.
2. I'm using G-10, so that will be pretty light. I usually drill a bunch of holes in the handle for weight reduction, but I was planning to just drill a few for glue purchase. I didn't think that I would need to try to make the handle lighter.
3. Is there any particular reason to add one other than personal preference? I didn't even think about adding one but I may ask him and see if he wants one. I'm going to try and contour the handle quite a bit and I don't think he will be using it for anything that would require more than that to keep it in his hand.
4. I'm not planning to sharpen the swedge, but I think it would be fine if I did. He's in Texas, so I don't think it would be a problem. I didn't consider that though, so if I make one of these for someone else that would be good to think about.
5. That's what I was thinking!

I didn't really think about a bunch of those things, so thanks for bringing them up! These will be good to consider for this one as well as others.

2. If you are using G10 and drilling holes in the handle, I think the knife will be very blade heavy given the long length of the knife and the short(er) handle. I think a shorter blade would be better for balance.

3. Nope. Personal preference. I just didn't know if he didn't want one or you didn't add it to the drawing yet.

 

[Spey]

Interesting. Then it might make more sense to do just the clip, then. I'll think about that some more. Thanks!

I would add, sharpening choils are an answer to a condition that should NOT exist (remember that FFF thing again), and potentially create situ's that will potentially negatively affect performance for the life of the tool.

Link to my most recent post where I attempted to present my thoughts on this along with comparison picture of alternative:
Sharpening Choil Alternative comments

 

[Spey]

Here a a couple images of a Edmund Davidson that have similar lines to your OP, but without a choil as a reference.

 

[Dergyll]

Here is a picture of my Bravo 1.5, it seems to be what you're describing.

It's got an almost full convex and the delineation with the top is very obvious and not "boring" I don't think. There's also a Bravo 2 that's bigger, but after handling it I found it very unwieldy.


Hope this helps, good luck

Edit: picture of a Bravo 2, for reference stolen blatantly from DLT

 

[Sonnydaze]

Overall, I like the general design.

But ...
1. What size glove does he/she wear? Where the fingers rest, it is about 3.6". That is on the small side. As a member of the big paw club (2xl+ glove), I run into problems on handles quite a bit.
2. That is really a long blade when you compare it to the handle length. What is the handle material? It might be blade heavy.
3. Lanyard hole?
4. If you sharpen the swedge, make sure it is legal in their area. A double sided blade (ie. dagger) might violate some laws.
5. For the tip, I'd vote for something in between what is drawn and the erased area like you said.

With large hands, I prefer a handle of minimum 4.3".
I agree that it impressed me, as well, of appearing blade-heavy.

 

[David Mary]

It is a really nice looking blade. And also does look blade heavy as Sonnydaze has said.

Also, does anyone have any tips for designing bigger knives?

Yep, directly related: I like longer handles which provide a little counterbalance to the blade. My Barax machete is larger example, but illustrates the point:

 

[Will Estes]

With large hands, I prefer a handle of minimum 4.3".
I agree that it impressed me, as well, of appearing blade-heavy.

do you think that just extending the handle would counterbalance the weight of the blade enough? 0.7" wouldn't do much, but do you think it would be enough? Also, by 4.3" do you mean total length or the length of the finger area?