Blade Forgin'

F

Frank Eaton

Joined
Sep 10, 2004
Messages
362
I recently pounded out my first blade of 1095, with 3/16" bar stock. I ended up with deeper hammer marks than I could grind out in the end. Do you guys start out with thicker stock than that? How do you counter the bend when you are packing the edge? It was fun though!!!!!!!
 
AR,
Where you located? If you're in the south east anywhere close to Atlanta or north Ga. Mtns., I'd like to invite you to the spring Trackrock Hammer-in the weekend of May 21st. This will be held in Blairsville at the Trackrock Campgrounds. The Georgia Custom Knifemaker's Guild will be sponsoring the Saturday session as part of our quarterly meetings. The hammer-in is open to the public and you don't have to be a member to attend.

There will be a short talk on Forge and Forging Safety, a Sheathmaking Demo by Sandy Morissey, a Bladesmithing Demo by yours truly, a good lunch (if folks speak up soon enough), and the rest of the afternoon will be open forge. I'm sure one of us will be able to help you get resolution to your questions with hands on work. Bring your problem projects and questions with you.

If you're a camper at heart, come spend the weekend and get in a lot of forging fun in. I'm there from Thursday to Sunday and anyone will tell you, I love to play with fire, hammers and steel. Come if you can you'll find good folks in a family atmosphere.
Let me know and we'll keep an anvil warm for you.

Carl Rechsteiner
CRex Custom Knives
VP Georgia Custom Knifemaker's Guild
 
Carl,

Really apprciate the offer. I was in Ft Benning GA for 10 years, it wasn't until I came to AZ that I became interested in the knife. I would be there in a heartbeat but I am a bit far. Maybe some day. Thanks Frank Eaton
 
Bit far for a weekend drive. There are some good fellas out your way that forge their blades. Several in the Tucson area, Utah and New Mexico. Shouldn't have much trouble getting hands on help near you.
3/16" is workable but somewhat thin. Use lighter hammer blows and work on your control technique. Pre bend your blade in the opposite direction prior beginning forging and as you begin to forging in your blade bevels work on drawing your distal taper to the tip (point). You'll be surprized how well mixing these as you proceed will control the "banana" effect. Sounds simple because it actually is......with practice.
And yes it is fun!
CRex
 
There's no need to pack the edge on 1095 or most the modern steels that you would be forging. Learning to forge is an on going thing. The more you do it the better you'll get at it. Say if your hammering the bevel its going to turn the blade up. You can either hammer the top of the blade and do a distale taper and that will bring it back down or you can use a wooden mallet to straighten things out. As for the hammer marks finish the blade off with smaller hammers and a cooler heat but most likly the marks got there from the start. There's a number of bladesmiths in Az. Tai Goo and Gib from Cactus Forge. I'm sure would give you some pointers.....
 
Hey there Crex,
I'm a fairly new guy here, I've posted a few times, but with time contraints and doing a ton of reading on it before I got started, I haven't actually forged anything yet. Just wondering if your happy with a general invite.
I'm in Chattanooga, so that hammer-in sounds like a good little day trip at least.
Got any more info you could throw my way?

Jon Shank
 
Jon,
You are more than welcome to join us at Trackrock. This will be the first Hammer-in/Guild meeting combination. Lots of Ga Guild members attend these hammer-ins but this is the first time the Guild is going to sponsor the Saturday portion. There will be lots of non-Guild members there also. The hammer-in is open to the public and we have many visitors throughout the weekend. It started out small and has continued to grow in the past 5 years.

The business part of the Guild meeting will take place in the morning between 8 - 10 am. You are welcome to join us then if you want to see what the Ga Guild is about. The rest of the schedule for Saturday can be found on the Knifenetwork Forums in the Georgia Guild Forum under "May Meeting" or over on www.Georgiaknifemakersguild.com

If you have any trouble locating either of these, drop me a PM with your email address and I will get the information to you via email.
Don't be bashful, more than half the Guild members are stockremoval makers and will know very little about smithing. Same with a lot of the other non-guild member attendees. You will meet some very talented folks and there should be quite a few knives on display to look at also. If you plan to come for the Saturday session and can let me know (quickly, time is short) I will put you on the lunch list. May be a small fee for lunch but the rest of the day is free. You'll definitely make friends and have a good time.

If you do a "search" on Trackrock on either forum you will be able to see what some of the past events were like and get a feel for what goes on at these hammer-ins. This is a family atmosphere setting and no wild stuff is condoned. There are other activities at the campground and nearby for the rest of the family should they not be interested in the business at hand.

CRex
 
A. Ranger,
I took a forging class, taught by Herb Derr, in 99. The two things Herb impressed me with were; Don't be scared to hit it when it's hot and stop grinding while you still have a knife. Good advice Herb! I believe you will learn more intially by working with round stock, instead of flat bars. With round stock, you have to move the metal more and in the process you will learn more. In a couple of years your forearm will look like Popeyes and you may start looking for that power hammer.Edge packing is a myth. It's heat treating that makes it work.Fred
 
Fred, Thats good advise about the round stock. Most of what I forged while learning was 60 grade rebar. My right arm would drag on the floor. I even tried some D-2 I picked up in rounds in the beginning. I learned real fast to leave that alone.
 
But don't you have to pack or form the bevel during the forging process, or does everone just grind it.
 
Finish forging of the bevel is the final stage in forging.Use a lighter,smoother hammer. Don't hit it as hard,either.
Edge packing is a myth that says that if you lightly tap away at the edge bevel you will "pack" the steel tighter together and make it harder at the edge.The truth is that the steel atoms rearrange themselves at critical temperature, and are "frozen" into the lattice structure by the quench and temper. To get a harder edge and a softer spine do a differential temper or do an edge quench.
When new at forging the temptation is to WHACK at the steel as hard as you can.This produces poorly controlled metal movement,and is non-productive.Hit a more controlled blow as square as possible and you will leave smaller hammer marks.To start with use thicker stock than 3/16.That is what you want to end up with.Start with 1/4 or 3/8 flat ;or 1/2 to 3/4 round stock.
After determining the basic profile,bend the blade in a downward curve,like a sickle.As you forge the bevels you will see the blade rise to straight.The amount of curve down is a learned skill.Forging the distal taper will also keep the blade straighter.Forge it after the bevel has been set ,but not refined.Then go back and finish forge the bevels with a finishing hammer.If the blade starts to curve up wards,heat it up and place it on the anvil (or a wooden plank) and strike the edge to straighten it.It will twist or ripple a bit,but that can be quickly flattened up.
 
I'm just getting started forging myself but here's some things I've found so far...
Hammer control gets rid of the marks. Its important to have your anvil at the right height so that your naturally bringing the hammer down kind of flat. Too high will give you problems. You want to hit the steel straight on also, no glancing blows as this will encourage cracking. I think all the years of trying to outswing my dad with a 28 oz framing hammer gave me a head start on the hammer control, as I feel pretty comfortable with it now :D I just can't figure out where to hit the darn steel to move it where I want :grumpy:
Choke your grip up on the hammer if you have to to get better control or move to a smaller hammer. I've seen alot of people who couldn't drive nails or do anything with a hammer because they tried to limp wrist a hammer that was too heavy for them. You swing it with your arm but your wrist is where a lot of the control comes from (not calling you a limp wristed fairy ;) ....just a lot of people don't realize how much they let the hammer wobble).

To get rid of the bananna bend can be tricky but not too bad. I don't have an anvil, so I had to come up with something else. I've got a couple 18" long peices of 3X6 cypress that I use. I lay one on the workbench flat and heat the blade and put the spine against it so the edge is up, then smack it real hard in the middle of the bow with the other peice. Straightens them right up, and since both peices of wood are really soft, it doesn't ding/deform the spine or edge at all. It's a little smoky, but has worked really well so far. The cypress is good and soft, but its just junk I've had laying around for a long time. I'm sure a couple hunks of 2X4 would do pretty well.
 
Just the process of heating the steel to forging temps leaves the surface of the steel blackened and pitted, so even if there are no deep hammer marks, you've got to allow about a 1/32" to 1/16" or so minimum on each side to be ground away in order to get down to a clean surface. Those nice shiny forged blades you see? There was a good amount of surface grinding done to them to get them to look that way.
I personally like the appearance of forge marks, as it makes the blade look more 'hand forged', and readily distinguishes between a stock removal and an actual forged blade. And the hammer marks leave no doubt that it was (at least to some extent) actually hand hammered, and not done with a power hammer or other mechanical means. After all, 'drop forged' is still 'forged', but it sure isn't 'hand forged' IMHO.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys, I feel like I just attended a EHAMMERIN. What a concept, but I guess that is what this site is all about huh. Well I have been beating the hell out of some leaf spring all day, good stuff. Anyway thanks again, when I get this big ugly done I will post. Frank
 
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