Blade in backpack

DarkPatriot

DarkPatriot

Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Messages
221
I was wondering if anyone might know the answer to this one. I currently carry a 950 rift on my person and zt 560 in my backpack. I've never had problems with the rift and the couple times I've been patted down by an officer, he never had a problem with it either, always gave it back, never said a word. The zt however is a different animal and I've just taken it to keeping it in my pack, just in case. I got to thinking this morning and realized that this may be considered concealed carry. Is having a knife in your pack considered concealed carry? Should I switch the 2 blades considering the rift is much closer to meeting the criteria for a concealed knife by Colorado law and keep the zt on my person since in the pocket w/ the clip exposed is "open"? Any insight into the matter would be appreciated.
 
That would depend entirely on where you're located. It would also depend on whether or not the police have legal authority to search your backpack in your area without the need to obtain a warrant. Unless you live in New York the police don't have blanket authority to stop you as you're walking about and subject you to a pat down just because you're there and they're there.
 
I don't know about Colorado, but in Wisconsin, these are the elements that define concealed carry:

1) a dangerous weapon is on the defendant's person or within reach; 2) the defendant is aware of the weapon's presence; and 3) the weapon is hidden.

This is just a reference since the term "weapon" is debatable. So is the term "hidden". I've heard both sides regarding pocket clip being open or not.
 
In Wisconsin, a large part of how the law is followed is by your attitude and the reason for the stop/pat down/frisk. Attitude has a lot to do with warning vs. charge. Arguing your rights or how you interpret the law usually does not bode well with class A type personality cops. I like a good friendly debate but some cops think it's a challenge to their authority and are more likely to slap on the cuffs or write the citation. This is strictly my opinion as a WI LEO with almost a decade of "ruining peoples lives" under my belt.
 
DarkPatriot said:
I was wondering if anyone might know the answer to this one. I currently carry a 950 rift on my person and zt 560 in my backpack. I've never had problems with the rift and the couple times I've been patted down by an officer, he never had a problem with it either, always gave it back, never said a word. The zt however is a different animal and I've just taken it to keeping it in my pack, just in case. I got to thinking this morning and realized that this may be considered concealed carry. Is having a knife in your pack considered concealed carry? Should I switch the 2 blades considering the rift is much closer to meeting the criteria for a concealed knife by Colorado law and keep the zt on my person since in the pocket w/ the clip exposed is "open"? Any insight into the matter would be appreciated.
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I'm not trying to be rude...but why are you getting patted down?
I worry less about the laws for carry and more about my behavior,
 
I wouldnt go by advice here (not saying that the advice here is bad or untrue) but search out your states laws and even your cities laws and read them and know exactly what they are! Better to be safe than sorry!
 
Interesting question.

now it has me thinking, since I hike with a kukri in my pack...
 
Hsc, 2 times were a misunderstanding and got straightened out within half an hour at the scene and once was a field sobriety test, which I also passed, an understandable question though. I am for the most part a law abiding citizen :). Xranger, I did actually check and couldn't really find anything so I thought maybe someone here may have had experience with with that particular situation. I'm going to also call and ask the p.d. in the area I frequent the most. Dewingrm, I agree completely. I have found that being polite and cooperative goes a long way with most police and they'll cut you some slack. I fully believe that the 2 misunderstandings I experienced would have easily gone the other way had I been argumentative instead. The one instance actually resulted in the officer and I having a long pleasant conversation after the situation was resolved about pocket knives. He had a Gayle Bradley II and I had a cpm m4 bm gaucho at the time haha.
 
DarkPatriot,

If I were you I wouldn't call the police department. Cops might be inclined to have a negative opinion of civilians carrying around knives. If you ask "some cop" on the phone if it's ok to carry a knife in your backpack, it's very easy for them to simply say "no", but that doesn't mean they are giving you accurate legal information.

Cops are under no obligation to give you accurate legal information. Cops may not know every knife law in their area and might just give you an answer off the top of their head, or based on something they heard, or based on their own personal prejudice against people carrying knives.

The best chances you have to get an accurate answer to your question would be to call the District Attorney's office, or consult with a local criminal defense attorney.

If carrying a knife, and staying out of jail, are important to you, I would suggest that you seek out the most reliable sources of information regarding your local knife laws, and with all respect, the police department is not it. Imagine if you based your carry choices on what a single cop said, and it turned out that they were all wrong.
 
Killgar, that's a great idea, I didn't even think about that and I have a friend who's an ada, thanks.
 
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dewingrm said:
In Wisconsin, a large part of how the law is followed is by your attitude and the reason for the stop/pat down/frisk. Attitude has a lot to do with warning vs. charge. Arguing your rights or how you interpret the law usually does not bode well with class A type personality cops. I like a good friendly debate but some cops think it's a challenge to their authority and are more likely to slap on the cuffs or write the citation. This is strictly my opinion as a WI LEO with almost a decade of "ruining peoples lives" under my belt.
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It doesn't bode well with me with cops telling you that they can do whatever they want even when it's blatantly against the law for them to do it and how they don't need to abide by the constitution or even basic human rights. I've seen it happen, I've seen people pepper sprayed and beaten with no provocation, I've seen people get their ribs stomped on repeatedly because they knew more about the law than the officers at the scene.

And don't even get me started on the cops who're willing to carry out body cavity searches at the scene and without a warrant.
 
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Charlie_K said:
It doesn't bode well with me with cops telling you that they can do whatever they want even when it's blatantly against the law for them to do it and how they don't need to abide by the constitution or even basic human rights. I've seen it happen, I've seen people pepper sprayed and beaten with no provocation, I've seen people get their ribs stomped on repeatedly because they knew more about the law than the officers at the scene.

And don't even get me started on the cops who're willing to carry out body cavity searches at the scene and without a warrant.
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It certainly wasn't my intent to imply that officers could do as they wanted. I was making a point that officers sometimes have discretion when it comes to charge vs warning. It is often the attitude and/or cooperation of the person that the officer has contact with that will sway a officers decision one way or the other. In Wisconsin officers do not need probable cause to detain and question someone all they need is reasonable suspicion. I believe the days of jack booted thugs as police officers has ended, at least in most places. Contrary to what some will have you believe we are not all jerks looking to mess with you because we can. If I stop someone and they have a nice knife I'm more likely to talk to them about their knife not try to find a way to jam them up.
 
Police are one of those topics that polarize people. Unfortunately people who are given any kind of power or authority over others are viewed very critically by the people who are subject to that authority. Unfortunately some officers have abused that authority and that makes people more suspicious of all police. Obviously alot of police aren't abusing they're authority but they have to deal with the fall out from the few bad apples plus people with attitude problems in the first place. If I'm honest, the majority of the time I've dealt with them is because I've done something wrong, and the few times I didn't it was straightened out quickly with no ill results for me. I believe a respectful and cooperative attitude went a long way to help that. I've probably been lucky too. That's my 2 cents on that. Any other thoughts on the backpack?
 
DarkPatriot said:
Police are one of those topics that polarize people. Unfortunately people who are given any kind of power or authority over others are viewed very critically by the people who are subject to that authority. Unfortunately some officers have abused that authority and that makes people more suspicious of all police. Obviously alot of police aren't abusing they're authority but they have to deal with the fall out from the few bad apples plus people with attitude problems in the first place. If I'm honest, the majority of the time I've dealt with them is because I've done something wrong, and the few times I didn't it was straightened out quickly with no ill results for me. I believe a respectful and cooperative attitude went a long way to help that. I've probably been lucky too. That's my 2 cents on that.
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You got more sense than half the people on this forum.
DarkPatriot said:
Any other thoughts on the backpack?
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I'm afraid it just isn't written down, in the law nor in case law, so there is no clear answer. This means it probably would be decided in court if a cop ever wanted to make an issue of it. That said, I know in other states courts have ruled this doesn't count as concealed carry per se if the knife is not "readily accessible." So for example if you had one of those old discontinued camelbaks with the reachable concealed holster at the small of the back, that would probably violate the law (assuming that specific knife cannot be concealed legally). However if it's packed in the main compartment with all sorts of stuff, and getting it out would require removing the backpack, setting on the ground and rifling through it, that wouldn't count. At least not in these other states where it's been ruled on. I can just imagine what a nightmare it would make for the outdoorsman/camping/fishing/hunting/boy scout community if they actually ruled this illegal.
 
Thanks glistam, I've decided I'm just going to continue carrying the zt in the pack (it's definitely not easy access) and just stay out of trouble :)
 
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