Blade Material : 154 CM vs ATS34 vs M2

J

JJG

Joined
Nov 16, 2000
Messages
20
I was curious if anyone has any opinions on the best blade material of the three in the subject line? Is there a noticeable difference if sharpened to the same angle and cutting the same material until becoming reasonably dull.

I apoligize if this has been debated ad nauseem prior to my post.

Thanks

JJ
 
JJG, welcome to BFC! Yeah, this sort of question comes up all the time. I'm sure you will get a lot of responses to this question however. First, 154CM and ATS34 are very nearly the same stuff. They are both 'stainless' steels. Assuming equivalent heat treatments, they should perform similarly. This does not mean that a comparison between knives made by different manufacturers or custom makers using these materials will perform the same. Heat treatment is the most important factor.

M2 is a very different material. This is a non-stainless (low chromium) carbon steel. It will take and hold an excellent edge. It will also rust quite readily without proper care. For more info on various steels have a look at the Steel Faqs section here at BFC.

Again, Welcome to our Nightmare!
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Paracelsus
 
JJ,
I'd choose the M2,not only for edge holding and toughness, but depending on the heat treatment a much finer grain structure to boot!
Ironhorse
 
If heat treated well, you will not be able to detect much difference in edge holding edge shape being equal. To appreciate the edge holding difference you would have to cut tough stuff all day long, needing to sharpen two or three times a day. When Benchmade first came out with M-2 (those who have read this a hundred times skip down to the next paragraph), I compared an ATS-34 AFCK, a M-2 AFCK, and a CPM440V Spyderco Military. I cut stuff all day long, rotating the knives equally, waiting for one of them to distinguish itself. No one blade ever did. They all stayed about equally sharp until I got sick and tired of sweeping up the garage floor.

M-2, as heat treated by Benchmade to around 61 RcH, is much tougher than ATS-34 as heat treated by Benchmade. Which is why i like it so well. I really like the 154CM too. It seems finer grained than the ATS-34 blades (Benchmades), and takes a finer edge easier.

But I wouldn't want to hang my hat on the meaningful differences between these steels for the average pocket knife. All are fine steels, and I would not hesitate to buy a well designed knife with any of them.

[This message has been edited by Steve Harvey (edited 11-17-2000).]
 
154CM and ATS-34 have the same elemental composition. For some time, ATS-34 was cleaner, as Hitachi used electric furnaces, but US makers now use argon oxygen decarburization which results in 154CM now being the cleaner of the two steels.

These are both good (albeit conventional ingot) steels, but neither has any really HARD carbide formers, such as vanadium or tungsten. Take the above steels, add 1.2% Vanadium, and make the steel really clean by the VIM-VAR (Vacuum Induction Melting - Vacuum Arc Remelting) process, and you have a steel that rocks: BG-42.

The advantage of M2 is that it has about 2% Vanadium and 6% tungsten; both of these make really hard carbides. The tungsten aids the steel in maintaining its' hardness into the red hot range, but this is rarely a factor in the sporting knife industry. M2 was developed by an efficiency expert so that tool and die makers could do more work, by having tools that would stay sharp even if red hot, not so that a knife would keep an edge longer, although this is indeed the case.

As Steve pointed out, few of us use our knives so hard that differences between the steels are apparent. Wayne Goddard has done some interesting edge holding tests, however: http://www.ameritech.net/users/knives/edge.htm

Hope this helps, Walt
 
Here is my thoughts on the steels you ask about, along with several others.

I do a lot of cardboard cutting, and M2 has worked excellently for me in that regard (in a Benchmade Nimravus Cub). But, I also like 154CM and (althought not as much as the other two) ATS-34. For me, 154CM is the best overall for me, of those three.

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iktomi
 
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