Blade material selection. Help a newcomer out.

S

sts0011

Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
12
Hey guys, new to the forum but it seems like there are some pretty knowledgeable people here so I figured I'd get some opinions. I'm by no means a serious collector but I do hunt a lot and like to have quality blades. I'm partial to Boker and skin with a lock back knife with a 3 1/8" Cronidur 30 blade. I love this knife (it holds an edge as well as 440c and is ten times as resistant to corrosion), but have found myself wishing I had a little bit longer blade when skinning larger game.

I'm considering buying another Boker lock back with a 3 5/8" blade but I'm concerned because the blade is made of 420 instead of 440c or Cronidur. I know the Rockwell Hardness of 420 is 54 and the Rockwell Hardness of 440c and Cronidur is 58; how noticeable of a difference will this make in the knife's ability to hold an edge while skinning heavy game like elk? Also how does 420 compare to 440c in the corrosion resistance department?

Last thought/question is this: Boker uses very high quality, hard steels in all of their blades. Why would they choose to use 420 in this one knife? Does the extra half inch really require the knife to be that much less brittle?
 
Find something in d2 cpm-d2, cpm 154cm,cpm s35vn can't go wrong with any of them. On the d2 just keep it clean and oil it every now and then. On your question though I'm know expert on 420 or 440c but I'm sure some one will be along shortly to help you out with this.
 
Böker has three different product lines with different level of quality
420 is more corrosion resistant than 440c, less prone for chipping but doesn't hold an edge that long.

If you want a lockback and use it for skinning you could consider a big opera from lionsteel.
It's D2 holds an edge and wiping the blade after use should prevent most corrosion.
Think about Dozier's folders ;)

http://www.lionsteel.it/en/lionsteel_2012_catalogue.pdf

They also have a "skinning folder"
 
For those not familiar with Cronidur 30, from a US supplier:

"CRONIDUR® 30 is a pressure-nitrided, highly corrosion-resistant martensitic cold work steel that offers excellent toughness and hardness up to 60 HRc. Combination of the PESR (Pressure Electro Slag Remelting) process with an elaborate forging or rolling technique achieves an extremely high level of cleanliness as well as a fine and homogeneous microstructure. This means excellent machinability,and polishability, as well as high dimensional stability after heat treatment. The substitution of nitrogen for carbon in some cases produces a much superior corrosion resistance and wear resistance in comparison with conventionally produced cold work steels."


I would suggest Crucuble's CPM S35VN as a more available alternative, it's being used more all the time, and can be run harder then 60 Rc for better performance when edge retention is more important then maximum toughness.



When it comes to hunting and skinning knives I use to use folders, but have moved to fixed blades, I find real handles much more user friendly in extended use, not to mention the difference in clean-up.

I find a 3" to 3.5" blade Ideal for field dressing, but prefer an extra inch or two for processing and skinning.

I would recommend a 4'' blade, like the standard Loveless style drop point, as a great compromise for one knife to handle your hunting needs.


Just one hunters opinion.


PS - I would not go for a hunting knife in 420 stainless, the folder's I use to use where 420, and I spent as much time sharpening as I did cutting when trying to process a deer. Stainless steels have come a long way since then, and now there are much better choices that give both corrosion resistance and extended edge retention.



Big Mike
 
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I wouldn't use a folder as a hunting knife to process larger game, a nice fixed blade would be much better for that purpose.

420 isn't going to hold an edge for very long so one would be sharpening quite a bit, the same with 440C for that matter.

Steels I would recommend for that would be CPM S30V, CPM 154, 154CM, VG-10 and CPM S35VN, start getting below that level in edge retention and sharpening as you go would be the norm.

420 and 440C would work fine for field dressing, but when it comes to larger game than Whitetail deer and the need to quarter the game one will need a steel with better edge retention.
 
from what i know, everyone has given you great advice boss. One note on D2... I know it's not tecnically a stainless at around 12% Cr, and it will rust if not given MINIMAL care (and i mean minimal since it's pretty good). that being the case, it doesn't really have a big problem with corrosion when it rusts and if you slip up, most (if not all) of the rust will be merely surface rust and can be cleaned up with steel wool or wet dry sandpaper and minimal effort, leaving nothing detrimental on your edge, IE: not a big problem with pitting. I had used it for years when i first started out and was surprised how corrosion resistent it was and how it held an edge way better than most things i was buying at the time.

Note: all of the D2 i used, was from old planer blades i had gotten when i had worked at a lumber mill in my teens, so experiences may vary.
 
It would seem to me that it depends on how much you want to spend, how good you are at sharpening and how much time you want to spend sharpening. I had a big game hunter friend that only used a little swiss army knife for everything. He liked the lightness of it, the ease of getting a sharp edge quickly and that it was stainless. While many would spend what he considers a significant amount of time sharpening their fancy knives he could get a hair popping edge in about a minute or less. I had another big game hunter friend that used a dirt cheap Swedish high carbon blade (not stainless) for everything - it kept an edge for a decent amount of time and took next to no time to get stupid sharp... great for dressing critters.
Myself? Well, I'd kinda like to get a fixed blade Queen hunter, but D2 can be a pain to sharpen... great steel, though.
 
sts0011 said:
I'm considering buying another Boker lock back with a 3 5/8" blade but I'm concerned because the blade is made of 420 instead of 440c or Cronidur. I know the Rockwell Hardness of 420 is 54 and the Rockwell Hardness of 440c and Cronidur is 58; how noticeable of a difference will this make in the knife's ability to hold an edge while skinning heavy game like elk? Also how does 420 compare to 440c in the corrosion resistance department?
Click to expand...

All good responses, but to answer your specific questions, you will notice a tremendous drop in edge retention if you change from 440C to 420HC, even more so if the 420HC is only hardened to a 54HRC. 420HC is more corrosion resistant than 440C.
 
Thanks for all the great advice guys. This really is an excellent forum. I've always been partial to Boker knives (my dad has collected them for who knows how long) but by the sounds of it there's no way to justify spending $150 for a 420HC blade. Thanks for all the advice about other good skinning and processing knives too!
 
Wet Noodle said:
It would seem to me that it depends on how much you want to spend, how good you are at sharpening and how much time you want to spend sharpening. I had a big game hunter friend that only used a little swiss army knife for everything. He liked the lightness of it, the ease of getting a sharp edge quickly and that it was stainless. While many would spend what he considers a significant amount of time sharpening their fancy knives he could get a hair popping edge in about a minute or less. I had another big game hunter friend that used a dirt cheap Swedish high carbon blade (not stainless) for everything - it kept an edge for a decent amount of time and took next to no time to get stupid sharp... great for dressing critters.
Myself? Well, I'd kinda like to get a fixed blade Queen hunter, but D2 can be a pain to sharpen... great steel, though.
Click to expand...


Using the correct sharpening tools those so called fancy steels can be taken back to screaming sharp in seconds, and that's using nothing more than a strop loaded with Silicone Carbide or Diamond compound or a ceramic rod.

And instead of sharpening as you go 6 or 7 times one can sharpen once after they are done.... ;)
 
If you're going to spend $150 on a knife with 420HC steel, I would toss out that idea and check out your other options. You can get a much better knife with much better steel in that price range that would handle the job better. Boker makes good knives, but I'd consider my other options at this point.
 
sts0011 said:
Hey guys, new to the forum but it seems like there are some pretty knowledgeable people here so I figured I'd get some opinions. I'm by no means a serious collector but I do hunt a lot and like to have quality blades. I'm partial to Boker and skin with a lock back knife with a 3 1/8" Cronidur 30 blade. I love this knife (it holds an edge as well as 440c and is ten times as resistant to corrosion), but have found myself wishing I had a little bit longer blade when skinning larger game.

I'm considering buying another Boker lock back with a 3 5/8" blade but I'm concerned because the blade is made of 420 instead of 440c or Cronidur. I know the Rockwell Hardness of 420 is 54 and the Rockwell Hardness of 440c and Cronidur is 58; how noticeable of a difference will this make in the knife's ability to hold an edge while skinning heavy game like elk? Also how does 420 compare to 440c in the corrosion resistance department?

Last thought/question is this: Boker uses very high quality, hard steels in all of their blades. Why would they choose to use 420 in this one knife? Does the extra half inch really require the knife to be that much less brittle?
Click to expand...

You can assume that any steel that you get in a knife from a long standing knife company will be successful for EDC and probably skinning animals. I think knife owners get way to carried away by steels. They worry way to much about it compared to size and handle shape and blade shape, IMHO.

Do you take a knife sharpener with you for skinning? The ceramic rods used in the Sharpmakers are many times harder than the hardest steel and will sharpen any steel blade very successfully. It is an easy carry.

Here is a link to a discussion about knives by my guru Bladesmith, Joe Talmadge.

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

So get whatever floats your boat. I like to carry a small fixed blade 3-4.0" for field dressing. I have a custom made 3.25" ATS-34 fixed blade flat ground made by D. McFalls. I keep it sharpened 30 degrees on the back bevel and 40 degrees on the primary bevel. It holds a great edge and I never had had to sharpen it in the field. I do touch it up when I'm through using it. I am also a fan of a small portable bone saw.

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=42
 
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