Blade Restoration Tip

Joined
Mar 25, 2005
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431
I have been using Chromium Oxide on my strop for that "polished edge" finish. Last evening, I started working on an OT that had significant Patina on the blades and the backsprings. So, I thought, hmmmm...

I took my low-speed dremmel, put on a small 1/4" wide felt polishing wheel, and loaded the polishing wheel with CrO. Man oh man - this stuff works great! I have been using white rouge in the past, but the CrO seems to cut and polish much quicker, and it leaves a very high polish.
 
Ted,
Where did you get the CrO?
What form is it in? stick or paste?
Thanks
Larry
 
That very interesting. I primarily use crocus for significant metal removal. I may have to give that a try.

Thanks for sharing.

Glenn
 
Interesting Ted.
I have a 5 lb block of green Tripoli that I used to polish pipe stems, when I was in the pipe business & I also collected pipes (tobacco pipes). My son wanted to help me polish up a brass guard I made for I knife I am making. He used the green Tripoli and it really worked well. It cut much faster than the white jewelers rouge I had been using and left a much higher polish.
I think I will use the Tripoli on my power strop and see how that works. I bought the stuff close to 15 years ago so I don't remember if it is CrO or not. The stuff sure works good.

Thanks for the tip! :thumbup:

Dale
 
Good tips! What is a good way to restore a facsimile of the unpolished "factory finish" typically found Old Timers and Uncle Henrys? Normally you can see fine lines perpendicular to the edge, running across the blade. I have a few OTs and UHs that are perfect except for a few scratches on the blade, or in one case an etch I wanted to get rid of. Thanks for any help with this!

Dave

P.S. I'm very new at this, so really basic instructions would be great :)
 
Dave, you can not polish out scratches and (at the same time) preserve the original striations.

If you are removing scratches, you are by definition removing metal so that you can get to newly exposed metal underneath the scratches. In other words, technically you are not removing the scratches, you are removing the metal that surrounds the scratches so that it all becomes the same depth again. You will not be able to remove a scratch without removing metal (which would also mean removing the factory striations in that metal that you are removing).

So, you'll have to make a choice. If you want to remove a scratch, you'll have to polish the blade (which means removing scratches) which would also remove the factory striations. If, on the other hand, you are only removing Patina and/or rust, the you can do that chemically possibly, which would not remove the striations.

Did that make sense, or did I get too tangled up in my explanation?
 
Dave,
I think what you are saying is you want to remove the scratches and also restore the appearance to the fine lines at right angles to the edge, that at are put there by the factory with whatever process they use to put on the final finish to the blade? Am I on target?

It is much less than a smooth mirror polish. I have a hunch that those lines may be caused by something like a Scotchbrite type product.

I will go try someting and then be back and let you know how it worked.

Dale
 
OK, Here is what I got with a quick run of a Dermel Tool with an abrasive buffing wheel. They are kind of like a Scotch Brite wheel.
The knife I buffed is an old carbon steel kitchen knife, with a fair amount of pitting. I didn't press too hard and to met the same result I would have to buff longer and start with a piece of steel without the pitting in the steel of the knife I used.
While the results aren't identical they are very similar, when comparing the lines with the lines on a 93OT and a new 77OT. Incidentally the lines on the 77OT were not perpendicular but at an angle about 6-8 degrees off of the perpendicular.
I expect that the finish lines were made with a similar type process. With practice I think I, or anyone else, could produce lines close to the finish lines on the Old Timers with a Dremel Tool and a Dremel abrasive buffing wheel.


I hope this helps,
Dale

[URL=http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/orvet/File0164.jpg][/URL]
 
Ted, Your explanation is clear. I meant I wanted to remove the (metal around the) scratches and then put the striations back, i.e., replicate the original finish. But for other applications the chemical idea sounds interesting. What chemical removes rust?

Dale, Thank you for the information, and especially for doing an experiment and posting the picture! I never noticed the finishing marks being off-perpendicular from the blade edge before. I have a dremel, I think I'll look for those wheels this weekend and give it a go.

This leaves me wondering a couple of things: Would it work better to set up a bench grinder with some kind of abrasive wheel? I wonder how they did it at the factory? Do you suppose it was a wheel, or maybe a belt sander?

Thanks again,
Dave
 
I expect they had something more sophisticated than a Dermel. Possibly a belt of Scotch Brite or a large wheel. I imagine they had a jig of some sort to hold the blade steady while finishing it.

One caution when doing this with the Dermel.......be careful not to let the wheel catch the back (or edge) of the blade. Basically keep it away from any edge. It really chews up the wheel & spits pieces in your face.

Good luck,
Dale
 
I'm guessing that the striations are the result of the final grinding (buffing) process of the blade with either a belt or wheel, with the blade being held perpendicular to the direction of travel. The photo below shows the "factory edge" being put on an OT folder before it goes into the box. If you look at the factory edge on a folder under a 10x lupe, you'll see that the scratch pattern is straight perpendicular to the blade edge (which confirms what the photo shows).

finaledge3lr.jpg



I'm sure that someone who's actually been their (like LT) can elaborate on how the striations get on the blade (not the edge, but the entire side of the blade, LT), but I'm guessing that I'm pretty close.
 
I believe the striations are the result of the finishing process done on a belt sander. I found this old small picture of a Schrade grinder finishing a PH1 at a belt grinder.
Enjoy
Larry
 

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Thanks for the picture Ted.
Notice that the blade is being sharpened into the oncoming wheel and not away from it. This takes a very fine stone to do this. The usual stone you get with grinder from Sears or elsewhere is far too course to use in this manner. I had to special order some stones for my grinder from a local speciality tool store. Also if you use this method, be very careful when learning this procedure and keep the stone dressed. It is easy for the blade to pick up a nick in the stone and it will jerk it out of your hand and launch it. I know because I did that a couple times when learning this method years ago when I managed a cutlery store. This method will leave the fine grind marks on the cutting edge.
After grinding an edge I use a hard felt wheel with white jewelers rouge to deburr the edge (do not deburr into the oncoming wheel when using the felt wheel, as it will bite into the wheel and throw it out of your hand.....I had an employee do that :( ).
The final step I use in sharping is a Power Strop. It is a leather wheel with rouge, that you can chuck into a drill and put a nice polished finish on your edge. It is made to sharpen wood carving tools and works great on knives.
I got mine at a Wood Craft store. but you can get them online at:
http://www.chippingaway.com/WoodCarving/SharpeningTools/PowerStrop.htm

Dale
 
Thanks for the picture Larry. A belt sander would also leave similar marks and indeed may have been the way the Old Timers were indeed finished. I have a PH2 which has the lines on it also. I used Photo Shop to enlarge your picture, but the resolution was too low to tell if it was a sanding belt or a Scotch Brite type belt.

I just took a 152OT blank out to the shop and put it lightly on my belt sander. You will notice the fresh sand marks along the upper edge of the tang. They are similar to the marks on the blade, but a bit courser. I used a new 320 grit belt, as it was the finest new belt I had on hand it the moment.

[URL=http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/orvet/File0168.jpg][/URL]
Click to enlarge.
Sorry this is as good as I could get with my scanner.

My sand marks are a bit deeper than the lines on the blade that were put on by the factory. I believe that blank had been finished and was ready to be handled & have the final grind on the blade.

From my little experiments it seems the marks could have been made by either a sand paper belt or a Scotch Brite type belt. Some sort of abrasive belt/wheel seems to have been used. I would think they used a belt in a production environment.

Just my $.02
Dale
 
I think you're right, Dale -- Nothing but a belt would make the individual lines go all the way across the blade. The dremel or larger wheel might produce a similar quality finish, but the lines would all be shorter, in proportion to the diameter of the wheel. And from your last experiment, whatever they used is finer than 320 grit. Funny, it's beginning to look like it would be easier to do a nice polish than to restore the "factory finish".

Thanks,
Dave
 
That finish is called a "crocus" finish. It is hard to restore without a very fine crocus belt. I think LT told me once he used a medium scotchbrite wheel.

Codger
 
Mike,
That sounds right. I think I remember Les de Asis once mentioned to me that they used Scotch Brite wheels on some of their knives, (this was back in the 1980's when Benchmade was just getting started). I don't recall which step in the finishing process they used the Scotch Brite wheels.

Dale
 
dlk said:
Ted, Your explanation is clear. I meant I wanted to remove the (metal around the) scratches and then put the striations back, i.e., replicate the original finish. But for other applications the chemical idea sounds interesting. What chemical removes rust?

Dave

Dave,
Hydrochloric acid,diluted with an equal part of water,will remove rust quickly.
I'd start with 2 parts H2O(water) and one part HCl (hydrochloric).It will work fast,so work carefully.
Naval Jelly (not from your bellybutton but,sold commercially) will also do it.
If you use a chemical,wear glasses,do it outside,and oil the blade after finishing as it will be very prone to rusting when cleaned with a chemical.

The Westinghouse plant that I worked in,used to manufacture turbine blades for jet engines using the lost-wax casting method.These were high-temperature alloys that were very hard,tough,and heat-resistant like Discaloy,Refractaloy,Stellite and certain grades of stainless.The smaller blades that were 5" long or less,were bead-blasted and then finished,using a 1" wide X 36" long Aluminum Oxide Wet/Dry grinding belts.The grit size went down to 600,but I don't recall the belt speed.The blade was hand-held and the operator developed their skills thru experience.
Silicon Carbide has a sharper grain than Aluminum Oxide and cuts better,when the belt is fresh.As the SiC breaks down,it will leave smaller particles that still have sharp edges.It will leave more prominent grind patterns,also.However,SiC is harder to bond to the belt and the less-sharp Aluminum Oxide will give better belt life.The Al2O3 belt life will probably be at least double that of SiC.
Since a knife blade is fairly flat,unless hollow ground,I would think the final finish would be easier with a belt,unless the wheel was a very large diameter.
"On what did I base my opinion ?,"- as Codger would say ?
I worked in the Spectrographic laboratory for many years during my early career.We performed the chemical analyses on many solid samples every day.These were prepared on a 6" X 60" (Wet) belt grinder.The finished samples had to be flat and have a uniform finish.Incoming condition ranged from wet-sawn to as-cast to ???.Some samples required a fairly large amount of stock removal. Sample prep was the mundane/dirty part of the job,but could impact the accuracy of the analyses,so I preferred to do my own sample prep rather than assigning an assistant to do it.
The job could be little hazardous too - if you were holding a 2" disk between thumb and index finger and putting some muscle into it to remove stock quickly,when the disk slips and your thumb pad and index finger go into the 60x or 120X belt,it gets thru the skin and down into the meat in a hurry. These "grinder burns" are as painful as a saw cut.
Ron
 
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