Blade Steel Change?

A

ASBOB

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Feb 8, 2008
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I was just looking at the Large Trapper on the Buck website and they listed the blade steel as 420J2 as opposed to 420hc. Is this a change? How is this different from 420hc?
 
420 J2 is used in China made Bucks. From what I read it is not as nice as 420 HC, but I'll let the experts expound.
 
On their web site, there is no mention on the page for the Large Trapper. On the page for the smaller, regular Trapper it says that that one is "Imported". At the listing for Knifecenter for the Large Trapper, it says "Made in China".

Does anyone know the quality of this knife?

Did Buck ever make a 4" Trapper in the US?
 
The new 300 series trappers are made in China and in my opinion are just as good quality as the US made 300 series knives. The Trapper was made in the US, and had three sizes the 311 slim line trapper, the 312 small and the 314 large trapper. There are a few limited editions out there that were made over the years. The 420j2 is a decent steel and the knife in general is made to the BUCK knives standards. They also come in a wide range of handle scale materials. I give them a thumbs up.:thumbup:
 
According to Buck's catalog, the change from 420HC to 420J2 took place in 2009. It's possible that it actually stared in 2008 after the catalog was printed and distributed, but I know of no way to tell.
 
420J2 and 420HC are very close in elements, enough to be twins. They'll use the look-a-like steel that is available in country. DM
 
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Guys ,

I am always surprised long time forum folks still ask this question. Matt and PLumb let me try to improve on your posts if you don't mind.

Bob and who ever cares. The slipjoint folding line of Buck knives is divided into two areas. Those made in the factory in Idaho and those made by overseas contractors. Buck contracted out some models to provide a knife that big box stores wanted at a certain price level. And to provide income in the hard economic times. These knives have lately been wooden scaled versions with model numbers in the 38X range. Idaho made 300 series folders come in several scale types and are marked with model numbers in the old time series 301, 303, 309 ,305 etc. Discontinued USA 300s have model number up into the 32X range. Some discontinued models are USA made in the Buck factory and some were contract made by Camillus even up into the late 1990s. All Camillus contracted models do not have date codes stamped after the model number stamp.

Blade steels of the overseas models is as explained above. In 1986 Buck began producing the 301,303,309 and 305 themselves and began date coding all in house made models. Those four models will have 425M steel blades up until 1990 or 91 depending on the model. After that all USA/Buck factory made 300s will have 420hc Bos heat treatment blades except for a handfull of limited edition special orders

As in Matt's reply there were a number of what could be considered trapper models, currently only made overseas. Discontinued versions of USA models can be found.

I am a life member of the NRA but as Matt states, the fit and finish of overseas knives leave little to be critical of. I have a couple I use in situations where rough , dirty, fish guts type use occurrs and I won't lament if they go missing.

Hope this helps. 300Bucks
 
Thanks for the info Craig. I was refering only to the OP's original question regarding the current model trapper on Buck's website and when the steel change took place.
 
David Martin said:
420J2 and 420HC are very close in elements, enough to be twins. Then use the look-a-like steel that is available in country. DM
Click to expand...

David,

Could you say more on this?

Joe Talmadges Blade Steel FAQ puts 420J2 a solid step below 420HC, as does the FAQ published at Custom Tacticals. Both reference a higher amount of carbon in 420HC and I both refer the ability for better heat treat with 420HC.
http://faq.customtacticals.com/steels/stainless_420j2.php
http://faq.customtacticals.com/steels/stainless_420hc.php

Not arguing. Just trying to understand the differences in perspective.

Would it be more correct to say that 420J2 would perform more like INOX or Case's SS (presumed to be 420HC hardened to around 55-56RC, iiuc) while Buck's 420HC with the Bos heatreat would be a (step up?
 
In comparing 420M to 420J2 there is a difference in C seperated by .23, chr. content is seperated (maybe)by .3%. mang. content by .5%. The rest are dead even. With the first having .30% v neither have moly.. This is for 420M! Years ago I brought this same chart to Joe Houser and he and I went over these elements discussing the differences. At closing he said," this is 420M where as our 420HC is made espically for our use and specifications and looking, it is closer to 420J2." This was taken from the Spyderco chart. Just trying to help educate. DM
 
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David, could you clairify what you are saying? I'm a bit confused. You reference 420M and the link provided in the prior post is about 420HC.

Which steel did Joe say was closer to 420J2, 420M or 420HC?
 
David,

Thank you for the additional information. As a newbie, I totally respect that others know more about these things, which is why I'm seeking clarification - not arguing.

I wasn't even aware of 420M, so thanks for mentioning it. In digging through some manufacturer charts, there looks to be some small variations in recipes by different manufacturers (similar to what we see in bike tubing manufacturers). Here are the numbers I'm finding for 420HC, 420J2 and 420M. Do they agree with your understanding?

420HC
Max Hardness 59RC
Carbon .45%
Manganese .80%
Chromium 13.00%
Silicon .80%
Nickel <.50%

420 J2
Max Hardness 56RC
Carbon .15% - .36%
Manganese 1.00%
Chromium 12.00% - 14.00%
Silicon 1.00%
Nickel 1.00% (optional)

420M
Max Hardness ?
Carbon .35% - .43%
Manganese .51%
Chromium 13.00% - 13.76%
Silicon .35% - .62%
Nickel .50%


One thing I've not been able to find is documentation of 420M's top RC. One site suggested 56RC but I could find a second confirmation.

I have 2 continued points of confusion though and maybe you could further clarify...

Pretty much every knife site I've hit has noted that 420HC can be heat treated to a higher hardness (especially by Buck). They typically also distinguish it as a high carbon form of 420. They also are pretty universal in saying that 420J2 (aka surgical steel) can take a fine sharp edge with good polish but that it is relatively soft (around 56RC). So, I remain confused about your claim that they are roughly interchangeable.

Second, you mentioned that Buck's 420HC may be specially formulated? Could you say more on that?

Thanks,
 
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