Blade steel question

[gull wing]

What domestic steel gets an aggressive edge like VG10? Does not have to hold it forever, no need for super super steel.
I want to make a series of gents knives(2.75",3"), but I really like the way VG10 cuts, that is what I want in these knives.

I don't make many knives, but have made knives many years, just not up to date on these things.

Thanks

 

[Tait]

I will be very interested in the answer to this question - I have previously learned that the geometry is what cuts and the steel determines how long it will hold the geometry.

If there's something about VG-10 or another similar steel that allows it to get - and keep - a different geometry than other steel, I'd love to learn about it.

 

[Justin King]

Large carbides are about the only thing that will make one steel cut differently than another, given the same geometry and condition of edge.

 

[james terrio]

Large carbides are about the only thing that will make one steel cut differently than another, given the same geometry and condition of edge.

Yup. D2 springs immediately to mind, if you're talking about a toothy edge.

 

[watercrawl]

VG10 is nothing like D2 though in terms of carbide size. I believe a similar steel to VG10 would be 154CM or CPM154. From what I understand, the carbide size of VG10 comes kind of in between the two.

 

[james terrio]

I wasn't comparing D2 to VG-10, just mentioned it because of the large carbide thing. I have no experience with VG-10, so I can't compare it to anything.

I guess the question is, what does the OP mean by "aggressive"? You can take a fine steel like CPM-154 (always an excellent choice, by the way) and put a 100-grit edge on it, that will be mighty aggressive.

EDIT: This chart compares VG-10 to 154CM, watercrawl is right they're pretty close. I'd definitely go the CPM-154, I do have a lot of experience with that and it's a really great steel. 154CM that's been around lately has terrible finishing qualities and less toughness and edge-retention than the CPM version..

ATS-34/154CM, VG-10, and S60V are the next group up. It's difficult to make generalizations about ATS-34 and 154-CM -- they are in such widespread use that heat treat varies widely. These steels provide a high-end performance benchmark for stainless steels, and hold an edge well, and are tough enough for many uses (though not on par with good non-stainlesses). They aren't very stain resistant, however. VG-10 can be thought of as being like ATS-34 and 154-CM, but doing just about everything a hair better. It's a little more stain resistant, tougher, holds an edge a little better.

 

[Justin King]

I should add that I have no experience with VG-10 and haven't even read up on it. Is it a powdered steel?
With mill run steels the carbide size is partly a result of the heat treat process, and the state the steel was in prior to the HT cycle. The more carbon and carbide-forming alloying elements a steel contains, the more it can vary. Most of the newer stainless steels have enough of both to form very large carbides unless the processes are geared to avoid this. Chromium especially likes to produce very coarse carbides if enough carbon is availible, and conditions permit their formation.
With powdered steels the grain and carbide size are supposed to be much more controlled.

 

[mete]

There's another steel in that class, N690Co. N690Co, VG10, ATS-34, 154CM are not powdered though all can have a fine edge. Quality BTW of 154CM and ATS-34 have varied . I have knives of all these . N690Co makes a fine EDC, my kithchen knives are now VG10.
My favorite though is CPM154 or the equivalent RWL-34 . These powdered steels are favorites for many makers and users.

 

[Don Hanson III]

I will be very interested in the answer to this question - I have previously learned that the geometry is what cuts and the steel determines how long it will hold the geometry.

If there's something about VG-10 or another similar steel that allows it to get - and keep - a different geometry than other steel, I'd love to learn about it.

Yes, geometry is most important.

What I consider a very aggressive edge, is a very thin edge and high Rc hardness. Also the extreme sharpness of a very fine grain steel, with very small carbides. Dang stuff will cut!!!