Blade steel questions

Big Dave

Big Dave

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 18, 1998
Messages
548
Greetings,

I'm in line for some custom slipjoints and was wanting to get feedback on balde steel. My main cutting chore is opening envelopes. I like a super sharp blade that slices through the paper like a razer. I'm a office guy...

First, let me give some of my observations. Somewhere around 10 years ago I asked Ken Onion what his favorite steel was and he said 440C. I don't recall all the reasons. I asked him about 6 months ago if he still liked 440C and he said that there were better steels out now. I didn't ask which ones he is using now on his customs (anyone know?).

For a long time I used some good flat stones and really tried hard to make them work freehand. I finally realized that I never was able to get a great edge so I recently bought a sharpmaker. I should have done that from the start. I ended up buying the diamond rods and the ultra fine rods in addition to what the systems comes with.

I've been sharpening some different steels and I can't get anything sharper than a little trapper made by Mike Alsdorf which is 440 C. (shown in the link)
http://alsdorfcustomcutlery.com/home/product_info.php?cPath=12&products_id=29

I went through the motions with a Kershaw Leek S30V. It's sharp but I'd say feels more toothy cutting paper. Even though I reprofiled with the diamond rods and went all the way down to the ultra fine rods. I had the same result with a Joel Chamlin 420V knife. Both S30V and 420V take more work than I would like to sharpen.

I have a old Mayo ATS34 fixed blade with a funky grind. I can't seem to get it bad ass sharp. It may be the wierd grind even thought I've gone through the reprofile, etc.

So far the 440C seems to be the easiest to get super sharp. Is that an accurate conclusion?

How does ATS 34 compare to 440C? Back when (10 years ago) I asked Ken about his favoire steel, ATS34 was available and he preferred 440C over it.

Are there other modern steels that are fairly easy to get razer sharp and also favored by forum members? It's a question that I'm also interested in for resale value...

Thanks,
Dave
 
Not much of a difference in terms of sharpening ATS-34 and 440C. Both are good stainless steels. It's a toss up in terms of which makers prefer one over the other as their characteristics are similar for the most part.

Even the more updated stainless steels (S30V, S60V, S90V) aren't too bad to sharpen if the knife was provided to you with a good edge profile from the maker.

The steel will rarely be the determining factor in resale value for a custom knife by a maker whose work is in demand.

Carbon steels (non stainless) take the finest edge imho, but a stainless like AUS-8 also takes a very fine edge and will hold it a long time if not being tasked with rough work.

Other stainless steels I've used that take a fine edge would be BG-42 and VG-10.
 
As has already been alluded to, the edge geometry and heat treat is more a factor than the steel itself. I have customs with 440-C, ATS-34, and S30V....all can easily be gotten scary sharp with a touch up here and there, but again that is more dependent on the blade grind than the steel. 440-C is an incredible steel in my opinion and often gets looked down on these days because of the more "in vogue" steels like ATS-34, and S30V. I have and carry a 440-C bladed custom by Mike Alsdorf and have had one in my rotation for over year. In fact I carried one exclusively for 5 months and used it daily. I can attest the the fact that 440-C can hold it's own, and I would never downgrade a knife simply because it had that steel as opposed to one of the newer ones.;)
 
A problem that I am seeing more and more on the high vanadium steels is people don't realize just how hard vanadium carbides are. I use all diamond sharpeners in successive grits and my S30V, S60V (a.k.a. 440V) and S90V (a.k.a. 420V) take a very fine polished edge, at least by my standards. From what I understand, vanadium carbide is harder than the aluminum oxide used in the Sharpmaker stones, so it will wear the stones down rather than the stones wearing the carbides down. The result will be a lumpy or toothy edge, where the stone has abraded away the steel matrix and left the carbide sticking out. Eventually, those carbides break out, leaving an even more ragged hole behind.

For the use you describe, you really don't need the wear resistance that vanadium provides. If you are going to be using the Sharpmaker for sharpening, I suggest picking a steel with little or no vanadium in it. 440C and ATS-34 don't contain any, and neither does 154CM. From what I have heard (not being in the business i could be wrong) ATS-34 can be tricky to heat treat correctly, and if the heat treat is wrong, it won't hold an edge if you manage to get one on it. If the heat treat is right, I really like it. I also find that 154CM polishes up nicely and takes a very nice edge.
 
Dave,I've had A LOT of different custom slipjoint makers knives.Some cut better than others,and I would say the edge geometry that Durwood spoke of is the key
Some cut good,but others cut way better than others,so much so,it is very noticeable.
When you get a good one,keep it
-Vince
 
Some of the cheaper steels like 420HC, 440A, AUS6 can get VERY sharp and the only issue is edge retention (as opposed to sharpenability). They are also very easy to put a fine edge on -- much easier than ATS-34 or S30V, or even 440C (all else being equal).

It sounds like you are looking for higher end stuff, but for what you are asking, i.e. what steel takes a fine edge and is fairly easy to sharpen those lower carbon stainless cutlery steels would seem to fit the bill even better than most of the "super steels". In addition, if you are going to use it for opening envelopes and similar tasks, edge retention should not be an issue.
 
I really like the basic carbon steels. For stainless I prefer VG-10, 154cm, AUS-8, Buck's 420 HC, and 440c in that order. The sandvic stainless fit in there somewhere, but I can't remember all the numbers. All take a good edge and hold it for a respectable amount of time.
 
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