Blade Steels being used currently

M

MRaymond

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Jan 27, 2012
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Simple question: Are there still 3.5" XM 18s being made with 20CV blade steel or has it all switched to S35VN?
 
The current batch of 3.5" XM-18's are S35VN, but we do use 20CV as well. We've used some other steels in the past, and I would bet we'll try some new ones down the road as well.
 
If you don't mind me asking, why the change from Duratech 20CV to S35VN?

Is 20CV generally considered the better of the two super steels?
 
Each has its own unique qualities. 20CV is very similar to Bohler M390 in that they both have a 20% chromium content. Both steels are "super steels", meaning they are powder metallurgy steels, pioneered in Japan. Both will have superb corrosion resistance, great edge retention (depending on the HT), and good tensile strength. There are always tradeoffs in high end steels: the harder a steel (ZDP-189 has HRC of 65-67), the chippier they can be, although this can be minimized with HT and blade breaking can be mitigated by cladding the core metal with less hard but more tensile SS's.

And the harder the steel, the more difficult for the average joe to sharpen. There is no perfect steel, but powder metallurgy has been a pivotal development in higher quality steels. I'm no expert, this is from my own research. Corrections are welcome. Spyderco is a leader in "super steels" and they have good charts of SS characteristics.

PS: I have knives with 20CV and M390 and 35SVN, as well as ZDP-189. I myself only strop, but do not sharpen my own knives (I'm not good enough), so I tend to prefer high edge retention. I've been very happy with my XM-18 with 20CV and am awaiting delivery of the new 3.5 with 35VN. I'm sure they will both meet my needs.

Jaytaylor said:
If you don't mind me asking, why the change from Duratech 20CV to S35VN?

Is 20CV generally considered the better of the two super steels?
Click to expand...
 
Jaytaylor said:
If you don't mind me asking, why the change from Duratech 20CV to S35VN?

Is 20CV generally considered the better of the two super steels?
Click to expand...

You'll never advance things with out trying new stuff now and then, plus its fun to experiment.
 
Not to piggy back but... The gen. 3 customs, what are the steels? Just got a Bowie in and I'm wondering.
 
Jaytaylor said:
If you don't mind me asking, why the change from Duratech 20CV to S35VN?

Is 20CV generally considered the better of the two super steels?
Click to expand...

First I'm not trying to start any kind of problem and if it does please delete this post.

Rob, I know virtually nothing about the diffrences in blade steels but I was wondering, if you don't mind answering, isn't S35VN a great steel since you use it almost exclusivly on the XM-24s ? Shouldn't S35VN wear just as well as the 20CV ?

If anyone else can impart any knowledge about these two steels it would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have been carrying and using knives since my early childhood, and I concede that I am nowhere close to being a cutlery steel expert! Personally I find no wear difference in the two, but I am not an "internet metallurgist". Both are similar in rockwell, edge holding, wear, etc. All of the steels we use are very close in properties, I don't think there is a need to over think it in my opinion. Rick has used 20CV since the beginning, I believe he was first, and now S35VN for a year or so, both have been great steels. We've had no warranty issues and no real complaints beyond the average person who struggles with sharpening them. Google is your friend, you can find specification sheets on both.
 
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------------Carbon----- Manganese --- Chromium--- Vanadium----Molybdenum------Tungsten
20CV--------1.90---------.30 -------------20.00---------4.00----------1.00--------------- .60
CPM-S35VN-1.40---------/---/-------------14.00---------3.00----------2.00--------------/----/-----

Details for those who care to read. I look at it as "If Rick uses it - it's good for me". Most experts agree, Heat Treat is the magic.
Certainly more to it than just the above numbers. I have the above two(2) steels in my Hinderers as well as CTS-XHP (which I Love)
All the typical Hardness is 59-61.
So, I say Enjoy your XM no matter what it has in it!
 
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I know Chromium is related to stainlessness.. So 20cv is prolly more resistant to rust.

Heat treat is indeed the magic. But I tend to believe 20cv is better with edge retention. We know s35 is slightly better than s30. And we know m390 is much better across the board than s30.. So logic would dictate that 20cv (m390) would perform better than s35 if they are both heat treated properly.
Logic is one thing though, and the real world is another.. I'd love to see a head to head video rope cut test or something..

I pretty much agree tho that if Hinderer is on the blade, carry with extreme confidence..
 
13aphomet said:
......

I pretty much agree tho that if Hinderer is on the blade, carry with extreme confidence..
Click to expand...

I thought of several things to say as I was reading this thread, but this pretty much sums things up better than I could. I have or have had Hinderers with all 3 steels and wouldn't turn my nose up at any of them.
 
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