Blade Steels

kvtcomdo

kvtcomdo

Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
212
Have never started a thread.

Have read a lot of blade steel discussions.

I find the subject a little esoteric to be frank with you.

Is it really that important???

I've got a fixed blade knife made with an axel of a ford F150 pickup.

Properly forged and heat treated it is an incredibly sharp knife.

I've got knives in 440C through 154CM, Elmax, SV35, D2 and the "super steels" M390 and have to be honest. They all serve a purpose, they all cut really well, they all need care but who wouldn't take the time to give them the care needed after investing so much.

Must be just me.

Good knife is a good knife. Want it sharp and available and i'm willing to take the time to care for it as needed.

Is it really that important.

Steel nazi's and steel snobes have at me.

Thanks for listening
 
I like to keep my knives REALLY sharp (totally subjective), and my M4/M390 blades stay sharper, longer. My Spyderco S30V gets pretty sharp, but it doesn't stay that way for very long (again, subjective).

In the end, if it works for you, use it and laugh at the rest of us for spending silly sums of money on metal ;)
 
I notice a large edge holding advantage in higher end steels- especially ZDP-189, over say VG-10/154CM. I keep my knives razor sharp, as in literally shaving hair off my arm, and after one or two jobs my EDC steels (like VG-10 & 154CM and even S30V for example) can't hold that razor edge anywhere near as long as ZDP can. Not that it matters cause I strop the knives I carry at the end of each day...

Here's a good [outside] read on blade steels
This leads to the general rule:
To really see the advantages of a better steel, exploit that steel in your sharpening program. If you're going to sharpen all your knives at the same angle regardless of steel, you might de-emphasize steel choice somewhat.
Click to expand...
On the internet, I'll often see someone posting about wanting to upgrade from their ATS-34 folder to one that has S30V, and then in a different post, declare that they sharpen all their knives at 20° per-side. Why spend all that extra money for S30V, just to get some marginal wear resistance advantages but no other performance advantages? If that same user would take advantage of S30V's superior toughness and drop the edge angle to 15° per-side, they would see a large leap in cutting performance, along with the extra wear resistance. Because of choosing the right sharpening angle, the more expensive S30V knife now gives an impressive return on investment. *Now* you can see what all the fuss is about!
Click to expand...
 
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As bladesteels go up the premium scale, there is a factor that doesn't change and it's what determines their rank. The longer it stays sharp over the course of its use, the higher it is on that list.

I love my Emersons and they get scary sharp. However, despite Emerson's expertise with 154CM, it can't compete with Spyderco's CPM-M4 for instance. I realize grind geometry plays a huge part in edge holding, but this comparison is glaring enough in the difference in performance between the two steels. It's the difference between cutting through material cleanly throughout the day versus having to work slower or resharpen (don't have time for this at work) or switch to another knife because you dont want to tear the material or leave a ragged edge.

Some knife models have a variation of bladesteels available, and the price difference between them is somewhat reasonable from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the secondary market is what drives the prices to such astronomical premiums since these supersteel variants are usually in the form of collectable sprint runs (Spyderco Militaries, for example).

I use all my knives eventually, and don't keep any safe queens (don't even have a safe), unless it's a multiple of a particular model. I can tell you firsthand, design and heat treatment done properly, today's premium steels do perform much better than non-premium ones (many considered premium back in the day). If you just collect knives though, then the steels don't matter much because they won't see use anyway. You can make a blade of 440A, polish it up, use high-end embellishments, make it look nice, and knowing that it probably wont get used hard, sell it for a grand and no one would be the wiser. If you do use them like I do, then the high end steels are worth it, but only if you didn't pay ridiculous secondary market sprint prices.
 
I won't get into a hash of knife steels and their use. Much is determined by how the knife is manufactured and how much the maker has to pay. Here is the best info about this topic I have ever found, written for the layman. The author is a Master Bladesmith.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

A knife made by a knife maker who has been around probably has the requisite features including good knife steel. Agree?
 
Of course a Vikings fan would make another one of these dumb threads. ;)

To some people, yes it matters.

To you, apparently not.

I want certain things out of certain knives. Different steels do those things better than others. So I go for those steels.

It's not very complicated.
 
I put knife design over steel....

Now I do like the super steels, but I do not need them. I find some of the most mundane steels usable for daily use. I also find it funny that people that have the funds to buy knives with super steels, have jobs that requires them to break down cardboard boxes all day. I find the more I make, the less I need a knife at work.
 
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You don't need 300 HP in your car to get to work everyday, but it sure makes it a whole heck of a lot more fun!
 
I've been on both sides of this discusion. At one point I didn't care about steel so much, then I read a lot and begun to care about steel too much.

Right now, I'm happy with any good performing steel. VG-10, S30V, S90V, S35V (at least the way Microtech runs it, not so thrilled with my Sebenza), ELMAX, D2 etc. Those all work fine for me in EDC folders. I try to stay away from any lower grade steels.

My more heavily used fixed blades are customs, usually made out of simple carbon steels or tool steels, depending on the size and intended use. 1095, O1, 52100 (probably my favourite), 5160 and so on. When I choose a maker I try to go with a steel they've got plenty of practice with and like. For production fixed blades, I'll take any of the decent stainless steels I mentioned for folders, tool steels or good carbon steels (I like ESEE's 1095, Bark River's A2, Spyderco's VG-10 and so on).
 
The main diff for this maker/sharpener/user is I prefer Stainless steels of 440C on up, Cpm-154,CPM-S35VN,BG-42 and about the least of the stainless pack would be CPM-D2.

I mostly make culinary and a few hunters and live by the ocean. I started knife making with 1075 & 1095 carbon steels working in my garage with the ocean air blowing down the alley, I moved to 440C and the other stainless steels after watching the 10XX series steels rust while I worked on it!

To each his own. If you want a high performance sports car? Get one, if you are happy with a 4 cylinder Hyundai? fine, they will both get you to work and home.
 
GatorFlash1 said:
I won't get into a hash of knife steels and their use. Much is determined by how the knife is manufactured and how much the maker has to pay. Here is the best info about this topic I have ever found, written for the layman. The author is a Master Bladesmith.

http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

A knife made by a knife maker who has been around probably has the requisite features including good knife steel. Agree?
Click to expand...

We posted the same link lol, its also what my quoted text is from. I've had it bookmarked for several months now but I could very well have found it from a post you made awhile back.
 
Steel matters to me. I want to try them all.

AUS-8A works fine, But I wouldn't know how much better CTS-XHP is unless I tried it. And it is better by a HUGE margin. Now I can enjoy using them more instead of sharpening or stropping them nearly every day to maintain the level of sharpness I prefer.

I'm not a nazi or a snob. I'm a connoisseur of fine metals.
 
gooeytek said:
As bladesteels go up the premium scale, there is a factor that doesn't change and it's what determines their rank. The longer it stays sharp over the course of its use, the higher it is on that list.

I love my Emersons and they get scary sharp. However, despite Emerson's expertise with 154CM, it can't compete with Spyderco's CPM-M4 for instance. I realize grind geometry plays a huge part in edge holding, but this comparison is glaring enough in the difference in performance between the two steels. It's the difference between cutting through material cleanly throughout the day versus having to work slower or resharpen (don't have time for this at work) or switch to another knife because you dont want to tear the material or leave a ragged edge.

Some knife models have a variation of bladesteels available, and the price difference between them is somewhat reasonable from the manufacturer. Unfortunately, the secondary market is what drives the prices to such astronomical premiums since these supersteel variants are usually in the form of collectable sprint runs (Spyderco Militaries, for example).

I use all my knives eventually, and don't keep any safe queens (don't even have a safe), unless it's a multiple of a particular model. I can tell you firsthand, design and heat treatment done properly, today's premium steels do perform much better than non-premium ones (many considered premium back in the day). If you just collect knives though, then the steels don't matter much because they won't see use anyway. You can make a blade of 440A, polish it up, use high-end embellishments, make it look nice, and knowing that it probably wont get used hard, sell it for a grand and no one would be the wiser. If you do use them like I do, then the high end steels are worth it, but only if you didn't pay ridiculous secondary market sprint prices.
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly. I ask a lot from my knives at work, and don't have the time nor inclination to fool with them during the day. I like something that doesn't need to be sharpened often. I have several older knives that now have a blade that is half as wide that they originally came with, because of always having to work on the edge. Some guys get by with a V6 in their pickup, while others need a Diesel to get the job done. Get what you need and please yourself, not everyone else.
 
Syncharmony said:
You don't need 300 HP in your car to get to work everyday, but it sure makes it a whole heck of a lot more fun!
Click to expand...

300 HP in a car! My 16 year old nephew drives a car with more than that,it's 2013 man 300 is nothing!
We are redneck's though;)
 
Well, this all makes perfect sense to me.

I see some of the same threads in Gun forums (who needs the super dooper gun over the more mundane gun etc)

I get it, I do have a few of the "Super Steels" (M390 only I guess)

I was just wondering about you thoughts.

BTW, lay of the Vikings, it's been a tough year; and until we get a Quarterback we are in for nothing but frustration (ouch).

Thanks for responding, I really appreciate your time and industry.
 
kvtcomdo said:
Have never started a thread.

Have read a lot of blade steel discussions.

I find the subject a little esoteric to be frank with you.

Is it really that important???

I've got a fixed blade knife made with an axel of a ford F150 pickup.

Properly forged and heat treated it is an incredibly sharp knife.

I've got knives in 440C through 154CM, Elmax, SV35, D2 and the "super steels" M390 and have to be honest. They all serve a purpose, they all cut really well, they all need care but who wouldn't take the time to give them the care needed after investing so much.

Must be just me.

Good knife is a good knife. Want it sharp and available and i'm willing to take the time to care for it as needed.

Is it really that important.

Steel nazi's and steel snobes have at me.

Thanks for listening
Click to expand...

I know, some of us wonder at times. I once asked on another site why people bother buying pricey customs when a Mora will do the same bush craft tasks.... I never saw such a virulent apoplectic explosion over such a trivial issue.
 
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