Blade Thickness?

F

FlyingMuskrat

Joined
Jan 9, 2006
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374
I was looking at some chef's knives on japanesechefsknife.com and I saw that the blade of the knife I was considering was 1mm thick. That is roughly 1/25th of an inch. That seems really really thin to me. I was looking at the Tojiro Sweden Steel Wooden Handle series. Would a blade that was that thin be very fragile? Any experience with similar knives of similar thinnesses? Is it possible that the measurement is wrong, or was taken towards the tip or near the edge?
 
I can't see too many problems arising from food prep which I assume is it's sole purpose. It'll probably be one hell of a slicer too! (those japanese know what they're doing :D )
 
I don't have a Tojiro to measure the blade, but I don't think that's a typographical error. I have bought some knives from their web site and found them to be a pleasure to use, often scary sharp out of the box compared to western knives, but you really should sharpen them further with fine grit waterstones to realize their true potential. Japanese knives in general follow a different philosophy of use and care than western kitchen knives. Most Americans are used to a knife which will likely take some abuse in the kitchen, with perhaps more emphasis on durability and less emphasis on being extremely sharp.

Japanese have a long tradition of caring for fine blades and therefore produce knives which require a bit more care. Japanese also place an esthetic value on the cut surface of raw fish being smooth and more appetizing when it has been cut by a sharp blade, hence the importance placed on sharpness.

Japanese knives are ground thin and use high Rockwell hardness steel, some of the high carbon steels are hardened to RC60-62. As a result they can cut soft foods extremely well, hold a sharper edge for a longer time but are also brittle and can chip if used on hard pumpkins, ceramic rods, butcher's steel, or even dry French bread.

Japanese knives won't replace your Western style chef's knife for everything, but they can certainly add joy to your cooking experience when you see how a really sharp blade cuts effortlessly through foods.... You'll also learn a lot about knives by examining the differences and similarities in construction, edge bevels, sharpening stones, sharpening techniques, etc....
 
Chipping on ceramic rods?? Holy crap!

I have an Itou Hiroo custom R2 Gyuto at 62 HRC, 2mm thick, 10 degrees per side. Great value. I have been using it for a while but have not resharpened it myself yet. I have heard about chef's steels not being recommended for japanese knives, so I had been planning to use the Sharpmaker fine and ultrafine rods to touch it up.

But now you say that ceramic rods can damage hard steels, I have no way to sharpen my baby.

P.S. Using this knife has been such a pleasure that I have thought of replacing all my Western kitchen blades with Japanese knives. Though it seems to me takes only takes two Japanese knives to do most of the things Western knives do. A Gyuto on the short side (about 170-180mm) and a medium length Deba (also about 170-180mm). Those will take care of everything outside of special applications like bread, fillets and cow bones.

Can anyone point me to a custom or semi-custom (preferably Damascus) Deba maker in the $100-$300 range?
 
The combination of 62 hardness and extremely thin edges results in a blade that chips very easily. I suggest that these blades benefit greatly from micro-beveled edges.

The edges are so intrinsicly thin that you won't even notice any decreased sharpness. I touch up my Japanese knife by stropping on 800-grit sandpaper almost flat to the stone and finish with a half-dozen passes on each side at 15 degrees with the little Spyderco DoubleStuff ceramic stone. That has stopped the chipping.

Hope this helps!
 
If you use a flat water stone instead of a ceramic stick, chipping won't be a problem when sharpening. I didn't throw out my western chef knives, I use them for any kind of hard food where chipping might be an issue. If you sharpen them the same way you sharpen your Japanese knives you should have no problem getting any knife, Japanese or western, really sharp. The main difference is the thinness of the blades and the harder steel, so you can still have non-Japanese knives that perform really well, they just may not be as thin and they might need sharpening a bit more often.

As far as a damascus deba, here's a link to a nice Kanetsune 6.5 in. deba, but it's not custom made:

http://www.hobbiesdepot.com/storefr...mDetail.aspx?sid=1&sfid=103309&c=0&i=62681016

They also have 4.7 inch and 8.3 inch blade debas.

Here's a more expensive one which appears to be custom or semi-custom:

http://www.japanwoodworker.com/product.asp?s=JapanWoodworker&pf_id=09.005.150&dept_id=13166

They also carry different blade lengths.
 
Among Tojiro range only (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/AogamiSteelSeries.html) range are Japanese style knife. Most of others are western style, so no worries. And bladeThickness:1mm probably error of typing, it looks 2-3mm.

BTW, Each kind of genuine Japanese knives, most has a single bevel to shapen easily, made from two layers laminated carbon steel(neither damascus and stainless), and designed specific purpouse. For example Yanagiba thin and long at least 24cm kinfe for a professhional, has a extremely sharp edge but fragile, for slicing SASHIMI with single stroke, not for chopping.
Sharping Yanagiba, is a bit complicated and delicate way therefore
can be sharpend only by flat stones with appropriate hands.

On the other hand, Deba, has a heavy and thick (5mm to 10mm) blade which has a double bevel in 1/3 to 1/2 from handle, the rest of the blade has a single bevel (however factory edge has a single bevel, you need to modify it), the part of double bevel for chopping, to cut fish bone or other tough materials, and tip section for finer work, however Deba is designed rough preparation work, particularly to do heads and tails off guts out from whole fish. Deba can be retouched with ceramic rods, butcher's steel because it robust made.

There also several kind of japanese style knives are available, a thin square blade for fine work for vegitables, a knife for puffer fish to make extreamly thin Sashimi, for eels a small 2 inches blade, so on.

In home kitchen, usually knives are used only stainless steel Santoku, which means three ways, or western style knivese. There aren't a big difference from western kitchen.

I recommend for a first choice Santoku, which you may have seen Blade magazine June 2006, for general purpouse has both advantage of Japanese and western style. Or you can go with western style knives with a fine Japanese blade. These knives have ordinally double bevel, can be sharpen ordinally manner.

PS. Gyuto is a western style that no need special attention.
 
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