Bladeforums mentioned in the NYTimes magazine,

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A little condescending but here's a quote from the article by Rob Walker re: Cutco knives.


"Indeed, visit a site called BladeForums, ("The leading edge of knife discussion") and you will find cutlery freaks mocking Cutco. Google the brand, and you'll find an arrray of complaints from former sales reps griping about, among other things the roughly $150 that recruits have to put up for the demonstration knife set.
 
Funny. I thought the freaks were the people who are like "knives have no place and no use in our society and everyone who has one is a barbarian from the Middle Ages".
 
I suppose the author considers himself 'normal.' Personally, I like the Yukon where you can go to the opening of the Legislature wearing a FB openly and nobody blinks an eye.
 
A Seller's Edge
By ROB WALKER

Cutco Knives

The advertisements appear on college campuses all over the country, inviting students to earn money by working for something called Vector Marketing. To get the details, you have to show up at an orientation session, where you find that the job is selling Cutco kitchen knives. The Cutco sales force, which might include as many as 40,000 people over the course of a year (there's a lot of turnover) is mostly college students, and has been for decades. It's not surprising that students would want to earn extra cash, but what is surprising is that those students apparently manage to sell a lot of knives (Cutco claims annual revenues of $182 million) through an old-fashioned method: the in-home personal demonstration.

The face-to-face sales call has at best a mixed reputation in the popular mind, calling up thoughts of shady pyramid schemes, or maybe of John Updike's Harry Angstrom, depressed after another failed day trying to peddle the MagiPeel peeler. Contrast these images with the contemporary vision of the information-hungry consumer who comparison-shops everywhere from Wal-Mart to the Web before making a purchase. Indeed, visit a site called BladeForums (''The leading edge of knife discussion''), and you will find cutlery freaks mocking Cutco. Google the brand, and you'll find an array of complaints from former sales reps griping about, among other things, the roughly $150 that recruits have to put up for the demonstration knife set.

Erick Laine, chairman of the holding company that owns Cutco and Vector Marketing, is familiar with the complaints and insists that they represent a thin slice of the massive sales force. (He says that the demonstration-set fee is refundable.) Those young people who do stick with Cutco, he argues, get valuable experience; Purdue and a few other universities have actually encouraged students pursuing sales degrees to sign up.

Cutco's archaic-sounding style may have detractors, but it is not a hindrance to sales -- it is the whole point. Bob Levine, a psychology professor at California State University, Fresno, enrolled in the Cutco sales course while researching his 2003 book, ''The Power of Persuasion.'' What made the Cutco system distinct from, and more successful than, say, the almost mythical Fuller Brush Man, he realized, is the elimination of cold calls.

Reps are strongly encouraged to start out pitching parents or other family members, partly as practice, but really to jump-start the most critical part of the process: referrals. John Ruhlin, 24, has been selling Cutco for four and a half years around Canton, Ohio, and is the firm's top performer. (Recently he hired his father to help out.) ''Everybody that you know,'' Ruhlin observes, ''knows 15 people that you don't know.'' For example: About two and a half years ago he made a sale to an Amish businessman; now half his business comes from Amish contacts.

Ending every demonstration with cleverly phrased requests for a fresh set of contacts, Levine wrote, meant that ''every contact is grounded in a trusted referral.'' Thus, by the time the salesperson is standing in your living room, he has been referred by someone you know, who in turn heard from someone he knows -- a rolling snowball of trust. Of course, as you're sitting there listening, you're hardly in a position to cross-check the seller's claims or comparison-shop, but why bother? ''The salesman becomes accepted through familiarity,'' Levine wrote. ''Social proof begets social proof.'' Or in the words of one of the handouts he received, ''Names are money!''

Levine doesn't have a problem with the knives themselves (he still uses the demonstration set he bought as part of his training). But, he told me, ''they're not selling the trustworthiness of their brand. They're selling the trustworthiness of their friends.'' That, he says, borders on the manipulative. Cutco's point of view is that it is selling quality, made-in-America cutlery through a knowledgeable sales force. According to the company president, Jim Stitt, the way that it goes about this is not exotic or quaint, let alone shady. Even in the modern consumer world, he contends, selling, from industry to financial services, is always about networking, getting referrals, asking to be trusted. ''Relationship building,'' he says, ''is how sales works.''

E-mail: consumed@nytimes.com.

It seems to me he didn't even have to take a poke at us. He just did it because he could, we're an easy target, and he really doesn't understand us.

Take a look at the New York Times forums sometime. We can have some wild flamefests here in the Political Arena or Wine & Cheese. But how often does that spill over into the General forums or the Exchange forums?

In the Times, you can be discussing biology or Shakespeare and someone will pop up with an anti-Bush comment, and the entire discussion will be detoured while everyone else joins in with chimp jokes. In international discussions, the maturity level drops below the age of reason as soon as a new forum opens.

Personal attacks, vulgarity, and bigotry are supposed to be off limits, but that's hard to prove by reading them so constantly. There are no moderators for most their discusssion areas.

But they think we are the "freaks". :p
 
The word "freak" is colloquially used to mean enthusiast, especially a particularly zealous enthusiast.
 
A New York Times business article should not be using ambiguously colloquial terminology. I've seen worse there; their standards have slipped badly.
 
By the way, I don't think Cutco knives are that bad. I've had a set since '81 that has been doing ok. Sure, they arn't a high quality custom kitchen knife. But, for the average user they are fine and Cutco's warrentee is very good. If I break a knife I send it back and get a new one no questions asked. There better then the knives i've seen sold in the supermarket and at flea markets anyway. :)

By the way, I was looking into Cutco knives a while back to get a replacement for one I broke the handle on and it turns out Ka-Bar is owned by the same company as Cutco.
 
There's nothing wrong with selling cheap knives... I think there is something inherently wrong with forcing your employees to purchase your knives especially when they make it mandatory just to sell their wares... reeks of "owing your soul to the company store". It's an atrocious business act and the company should be taken to court and fined abundantly for it.
 
That was going to be my first job in college but i was just married and needed a steady income of known quantity. I did buy a 5 piece set for about $70 and that was our first "credit" purchase. That was in 1972 and I still have 3 of the knives today(the others walked off). They have been back to the factory for sharpening once and work just fine. Especially considering the hundreds of trips through the dishwasher. I consider it one of my wisest purchases as does my wife. She thought otherwise at the time. ;)
 
Esav Benyamin said:
A New York Times business article should not be using ambiguously colloquial terminology. I've seen worse there; their standards have slipped badly.
I think the pull quote said it all: I don't think the author's research went *past* Googling the name...and that's where he discovered BF.
 
Gollnick said:
The word "freak" is colloquially used to mean enthusiast, especially a particularly zealous enthusiast.

I don't mind being called a "knife freak" :D Not sure what the fuss is all about, people often label themselves as "knife nuts" (or "knuts") in the forums and nobody cares. Compared to sheeple i suppose i am a "freak" when it comes to knives but certain folks have spent considerably more time (and money) on knives and are no doubt proud of being a bit on the "freaky" side :D
 
Well, I will hang my head in shame and admit that I was a Vector/Cutco lacky for a short time.

I don't have a problem with their knives (though they are overpriced and overhyped) and I don't really have a big problem with requiring 'employees' to buy the demo set (which can be sold on used eBay to just about break even) but the whole 'training' definately felt more like an attempted brain washing than an honest sales/knowledge training process.
 
I for one AM insulted. I don't go around calling Art Collectors "Freaks", or people who spend copious amounts of money on clothes, electronics, wine, cigars, or what have you "freaks" either.

Everyone has a passion and some people's passion is knife collecting, others like to collect flashlights, restore cars, or shoot guns(all of which are my passions). I would never label someone who was passionate about something as a "freak", it is not only insulting, it is rude and a true sign of ignorance.

-Rob
 
first my girl friend calls me a geek for chatting about knives, now im called a freak too...gees ,good thing i dont have any self esteem problems : :D or id really be messed up.
 
Cheer up man, there are far more important things in life than what others think of you (especially those that you don't even know and never will) :D In today's society people who stockpile knives are a tad unusual, agreed ? To think about it, they would probably be a tad unusual way back in the dark ages too or at any other point in the past (one knife is a tool, dozens of knives is an obsession) ... anyway, "freak" has many meanings:

freak
n.

1.A thing or occurrence that is markedly unusual or irregular: A freak of nature produced the midsummer snow.
2.An abnormally formed organism, especially a person or animal regarded as a curiosity or monstrosity.
3.A sudden capricious turn of mind; a whim: “The freaks of the psyche can no more be explained than the Devil” (Maurice Collis).
4.Slang.
a.A drug user or addict: a speed freak.
b.An eccentric or nonconformist person, especially a member of a counterculture.
c.An enthusiast: rock music freaks.

We're knife enhusiasts: knife freaks :) A tad unusual too compared to vast majority of people out there. Such is life.
 
Nothing wrong personally with the 'freak' label. BUT, it paints people who have the remotest interest in knives as bad, scary, 'freaky' people. This kind of talk just encourages anti-knife laws and public perception.
 
Hey what do you expect from a newspaper that doesn't even have a comics page?

Lone Hunter,gun nut,bambi killler and knife freak.I wear the lables as a badge of honor.Its the NY Times who gives a f*** .
 
Cutlery-Freak chiming in....




I have a set of Cutco. Love the knives, but not the company. I've known many people...friends, including my sister-in-law and even myself...that sold Cutco. Some did well, most did not.

Pyramid scheme? blurring the line, I'd say.


Ponzi's rollin' over in his grave....wishing he would've thought of this instead....:D




Cheers to Bladeforums!


Now sue!

:footinmou
 
There are many things that I, myself, as well as my fellow knife "freaks" could be labeled as such (i.e. exceeding the social standards for the mentioned zeal for things-not-"normal"). My honor for one; I think that a vast majority of Western and modern society as a whole has forgotten this concept of integrity and compassion. I myself, shortly after entering the civilian workforce, found myself in a verbal confrontation with one of the department supervisors where I work, because he insisted that I was lying. My honor was at stake and I would NOT back down. He got his ass chewed in the end I was told to be more careful. Do you think that I was in the wrong? Some, many, would say yes. I say I had a belief in something and a principle I would not let go of, and COULD have been labeled as insubordinant. Now, this could be seen as off the subject but I think that it's right on the money. You cannot label a person because of their non-conformist zeal for something not considered mainstream or "normal." Our society itself has become so enwrapped in itself and side-blinded that they fail to see that people just might, for some purpose, have a difference of opinion, or in this case a differene of zeal for certain things. Some, love movies, art, or music. We recognize the ART of bladesmithing and are enraptured by the science and artistic aspects of a well made tool. Yet to them, we should be damned for our love of a thing that could potentially kill.

As I write this I am reminded of a post that I responded to when I first joined the forums here. It was along the same lines, reffering to the sheeple and knuts, who disagreed, mainly to the fault of the sheeple and their presumed and well shown narrow mindedness. Let's just be honest, there will always be sheeple and knuts or gnuts or some other form of zealous fixation with the artistry of warfare and weaponry or tools. And, just as there will always be those who love these things, there will always be those who hate these things. Would you like to know the reason? Misplaced FEAR of the unkown and danger. They were never raised with the respect that I or you or WE have for these "dangerous" things, and they never will because they're afraid and too blinded by it to see any different point of view.

Sorry about the length. This is one of the more passionate subjects I enjoy discussing.
 
I suppose I can reiterate slightly, the term itself isn't the insult, the publication is the insult. In our society, the New York Times and its sister publications are rather widely respected journalistic publications. The printing for an article that insults a large group of people insults me, a true publication dedicated to informing the public of the truth, wouldn't have the need to take cheap shots at a groupe of people. There it is in print, none-the-less and I find it disgusting and foul as opposed to truly insulting. I think this is a truly bad piece of journalism in and of itself and just seems to accurately reflect the turn for the worse that some publications have taken.

That said, I think I like the term "Knifreak" since Kfreak doesn't work like "Knuts" does. What do you guys think?

-Rob
 
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