Blaster graphite spray?

[weo]

Hello all. I hope everyone is staying healthy and happy.
I didn't want to resurrect an older thread (https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/anti-scale-coatings.1535987/)
but was wondering if there's any feedback from those who have used the graphite spray. I'm looking to minimize the decarb during HT on my pattern welded blades so that I don't have to grind away as much post HT. I was going to order some ATP-641, but before I did that was wondering if folks in the above thread have had a chance to try the graphite spray and if so, does this work as well?
Thanks

 

[Keith Nix]

I used it on a couple of small 52100 blades. While I didn't etch to check for decarb, as quenched hardness was on point. I bought a bag of graphite powder and plan to make an antiscale dip with it by adding to a recipe Stacy offered in another thread, using yellow ochre.

 

[Hubert S.]

I am going to give it a try. ATP-641 works great, but it does not always adhere uniformly, takes long to dry and while it pops off during the quench for the most part, it tends to stick in the tang holes. Plus, if you don't use it for a while, it separates in the container and it takes a good long while to mix it back up. The graphite spray seems so much more convenient.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Hmmm, adding graphite would possibly be a good idea. Let us know how it works. I am going to make a new batch of anti-scale when the new hot shop is ready.

 

[Hubert S.]

I want to try this out and I am wondering what would be a good test to see how effective the graphite spray is. In the other thread, Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith suggested etching in ferric chloride after cleanup:

One thing that can tell you a lot about having decarb is to etch the metal in FC after cleanup. The decarb will etch as dark spots and the hardened stainless will be pretty much untouched.

Is there any other more readily available etching solution that might work for this? Would a longer soak in vinegar accomplish the same thing? I could do a couple of coupons of AEB-L at 1,975°F for ten minutes, one bare and one sprayed with the graphite. Or just coat one side of the coupons and do a few with different soak times.

 

[Natlek]

Hmmm, adding graphite would possibly be a good idea. Let us know how it works. I am going to make a new batch of anti-scale when the new hot shop is ready.

Graphite is carbon ...........won't it react/migrate in steel and make surface with more carbon .................. carbonising ?

 

[Keith Nix]

I don't see that being a problem in an open atmosphere oven where carbon migration FROM the steel is the issue. For me the use of the product would only be during the austenitizing heat of carbon steels, where the use of foil interferes with oil quenching. 15 minutes or less is not enough time to carburize a steel more than a very few microns deep. Probably not that in an open atmosphere oven.

 

[Ken H>]

I bought a bag of graphite powder and plan to make an antiscale dip with it by adding to a recipe

Why not just use the graphite spray? Much more convenient that having to mix up graphite powder and the spray seems to work pretty good. I've used graphite spray for both carbon steel and SS.

I could do a couple of coupons of AEB-L at 1,975°F for ten minutes, one bare and one sprayed with the graphite. Or just coat one side of the coupons and do a few with different soak times.

I'd LOVE to see the results of this test. As I've mentioned before I always grind post HT so any decarb gets removed.

 

[weo]

Would a longer soak in vinegar accomplish the same thing?

Yep, but in my experience it can take up to a couple of days.

I came across this topic on another forum (https://knifedogs.com/threads/graphite-spray.51593/) and the poster said that while the graphite spray lube is a decent anti-scale product, it did nothing to prevent decarb, so I think I'll just go with the ATP-641.
Thanks everyone

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

My mix is a homemade blend to imitate Turco II. It makes a pretty good anti-scale/decarb shield for HTing blades in a forge. The idea of adding graphite sounds interesting.

This is my mix from an old thread. I adjust it a bit every time I mix a new batch. Most of the times, I up the ocher.


5oz boric acid (roach powder)
3oz borax ( 20 mule team is fine)
8oz denatured alcohol ( the cheap paint store variety, not the drug store stuff)
2oz satanite ( our old refractory friend)
3-4oz ocher (any color ocher - finely sifted dried red clay would probably work)
3-4oz gum tragacanth ( bottle of leather edge dressing)
water

Mix,adding additional alcohol until it becomes a well mixed thick paste. Add water until it becomes a slurry ( I think it needs some water to allow proper hydration and solution of some ingredients). Try it on a piece of steel to check results, and adjust the ingredients as needed. Keep in a tightly capped container,away from heat. Shake well each use, and paint it on with a small brush, or dip the blade and let the excess run back into the container. A batch should last for a long time. Add some alcohol if it gets too thich or dry.

Do not use above 1600F as the borates will become corrosive.

 

[weo]

Thanks for re-posting this recipe, Stacy.

This is my mix from an old thread.

I remember seeing this in the other thread form 2017. One question I didn't see the answer to is what's the addition of the gum tragacanth for?

 

[Keith Nix]

Why not just use the graphite spray? Much more convenient that having to mix up graphite powder and the spray seems to work pretty good. I've used graphite spray for both carbon steel and SS.

I think weo answered that question. There could possibly be some decarb. Stacy's recipe with a portion of graphite would address that.
I'd LOVE to see the results of this test. As I've mentioned before I always grind post HT so any decarb gets removed.

 

[JTknives]

I have been in contact with a company that makes coating for shielding items in heat treat furnaces. Some stick do well thy told my you have to you hydrochloric acid to remove them. Some thy say come right off with brushing but the price tag is quite high. You would think you where buying drugs with what you pay per ounce.

This is our biggest restriction in production. The dang foil wrapping takes so long. Don’t get me wrong it works great but it’s also very time consuming. We go through a 20” x 100ft roll of 309 stainless foil about every 3 months so we do a ton of wrapping.

 

[Tom Lewis]

I tried graphite spray once. It was easy to apply and stayed on during the heat treat. But I felt the decarb was worse than using no coating of any kind. I only did this once and hard and fast conclusions shouldn't be made from one experiment, but that was my experience.

 

[Natlek]

Hello all. I hope everyone is staying healthy and happy.
I didn't want to resurrect an older thread (https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/anti-scale-coatings.1535987/)
but was wondering if there's any feedback from those who have used the graphite spray. I'm looking to minimize the decarb during HT on my pattern welded blades so that I don't have to grind away as much post HT. I was going to order some ATP-641, but before I did that was wondering if folks in the above thread have had a chance to try the graphite spray and if so, does this work as well?
Thanks

This works for hamon and differential HT and was easy to clean after .....Maybe would work for what you want ?
https://gasproducts.co.uk/soudal-high-temperature-firecement-sealant-1500-c.html

 

[Keith Nix]

Hmmm, adding graphite would possibly be a good idea. Let us know how it works. I am going to make a new batch of anti-scale when the new hot shop is ready.

Stacy, graphite powder in your antiscale recipe is a no go. The slurry beaded like rain on a fresh wax job and ran back in the jar.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Thanks, good to know... Saves a wasted batch.

 

[Keith Nix]

Yes sir. The graphite aparrently made the whole batch a greasy, slick mess...

 

[weo]

As an update, I used the ATP-641 for hardening my last batch of 2 ktichen knives. It looks like it accomplished what I'm after, which is preventing decarb during HT. I finished sanding one yesterday and didn't need to use the 2x72 after tempering, went straight to hand sanding with 220 grit.

but it does not always adhere uniformly,

I noticed this on one of the blades. There's a small spot where apparently it didn't adhere well and there's some minor decarb on one side close to the spine.

 

[RAT Pack]

I want to try this out and I am wondering what would be a good test to see how effective the graphite spray is. In the other thread, Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith suggested etching in ferric chloride after cleanup:

Is there any other more readily available etching solution that might work for this? Would a longer soak in vinegar accomplish the same thing? I could do a couple of coupons of AEB-L at 1,975°F for ten minutes, one bare and one sprayed with the graphite. Or just coat one side of the coupons and do a few with different soak times.

I want to try this out and I am wondering what would be a good test to see how effective the graphite spray is. In the other thread, Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith suggested etching in ferric chloride after cleanup:

Is there any other more readily available etching solution that might work for this? Would a longer soak in vinegar accomplish the same thing? I could do a couple of coupons of AEB-L at 1,975°F for ten minutes, one bare and one sprayed with the graphite. Or just coat one side of the coupons and do a few with different soak times.

I'm A bit late on replies, but I'm the guy who started using graphite spray (www.bellablades.com) for decarb and scale protection! I have test results from others posted in my papers section along with other white papers. All you need is some acetone to wipe the knives down before spraying. If you get some sheeting of the graphite it just means that you put it one heavy. It just wipes off, leaving the next layer intact. I test hardness while the graphite is still on--no difference from when I clean it off. Good luck and ignore those who haven't tried it, but speak like experts!